Lunacy

Another mass killing; this time 20 precious, innocent children in an elementary school. A deranged 20-year-old with semi-automatic weapons. This after a mass shooting in a mall in Oregon last week. Then, of course, are the ‘usual’ daily murders in Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles…

Mental health issues, poverty, unemployment, ignorance, anger and culture. And guns.

Where do we begin?

 

connecticut-school-shooting

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35 thoughts on “Lunacy

  1. “They” begin by deflecting the blame:

    And then the religious nut is backed up by a political nut:

    And now from the gun lobby:
    “Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to insure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones. The only thing accomplished by gun free zones is to insure that mass murderers can slay more before they are finally confronted by someone with a gun.” – Larry Pratt, head of Gun Owners of America.

    1. The editorial cartoonist of the Toledo Blade has a comment about the idiots above:

      To those who point fingers…
      To those who spew talking points…
      To those who offer instant analysis
      without knowing the facts…
      To those who exploit tragedy to score
      political points…

      Do us all a favor…

      Shut up and grieve.

  2. All three guns were legally obtained by the mother in this case.
    CT has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, and the mother passed all the tests and requirements to obtain them.

    Now come the questions…Why did the mother need two premium service weapons? More importantly why did she need
    an assualt rifle? Then, how did the shooter obtain entraance into a secured school building? Who buzzed him in?

    A tangent question I have concerns the treatment of the older
    brother who lived 80 miles away and had not seen his brother
    in two years. The FBI surrounded his place in Hoboken, NJ,
    and arrested him in handcuffs, and took him to jail. Others in the house may have been arrested at the same time. Meanwhile,
    they have confiscated his computer and other material to search. My question, of course, is how far are we going to allow
    this growing police state at the Federal level to run over our
    rights and liberties? Did we not loudly criticize Nixon and Bush II when they ordered the invasion of people’s private homes without warrants or probable cause? With Obama’s escalation
    of the Patriot Act, and the free hand he is apparently giving to his Attorney General and the FBI where is the hue and cry?

    1. The brother’s I.D. was found at the school and the police were checking to see if it was used to gain entrance to the school. Some reports are that he “forced” his way into the school and was confronted by the principal (she realized what was happening and turned on the P.A. system before he shot her). I did wonder why the brother was transported in handcuffs.

      What factors in this kids life could cause this behavior…….
      1. Lived in a gun environment (mother collected guns, including at least some of the semi-automatic weapons used).
      2. He was home schooled
      3. Mother was portrayed as being extremely strict. Wonder if that included Bible teachings.

      This may come off as cold, but have you ever wondered about the kids raised in the homes of some of the posse?

      1. but have you ever wondered about the kids raised in the homes of some of the posse?

        I worry about the children raised in the homes of many kinds of parents. One rarely knows what goes on behind those closed doors. When parents don’t have their shit together, it is often the child who suffers more than the parent.

  3. FROM TWITTER:

    Shirley Phelps-Roper
    @DearShirley
    Westboro will picket Sandy Hook Elementary School to sing praise to God for the glory of his work in executing his judgment.

    (I wonder if Sepp and his buddies will be able to make it.)

  4. Last night, Huckabee, said the shootings were a result of not having god in
    the schools. The problem is that a good 40% accept it.

    1. Yes, THAT is the problem. Forty percent! And, one might ask, how many of them believe that ‘God’ lets things like this ‘happen’ as an example of ‘the Devil’s existence?? And, by the way, isn’t ‘God’ omnipresent?

      That type of idiocy, hopefully, is slowly going away with the new generation of young people rising up to disavow this utter nonsense. CBS Sunday Morning had a segment on today citing the fact that ‘none of the above’ now has risen to 20% of the nation and is growing, whereas your 40% is falling with each death of the aging ‘believers.’

      The ‘believers’ have done it themselves, the report [based on Pew polling] said, because of their ‘righteous’ stance against gays/lesbians and abortion. The younger generation, to a large degree, accepts both concepts as well as same-sex marriage. Mega churches are feeling the trend of empty seats just as mainline churches have experienced in recent years.

      The trend is spiraling downwards, but not fast enough for me!

  5. For the most part of his academic life, Adam Lanza was in the public school system. Only in his last year of school, did his mother take him out of the system. The more I read about Lanza, the more I want to know. I think it really is pointless and non productive to speculate with out knowing what this obviously brilliant, but disturbed kid really experienced. His mother did not seem to be a Christian Right Extremist, but you really have to look at the interaction of kid who is radically different…and his difference makes him a target in a world of the culture or American teen age conformity. Then you have to examine what his mother was doing to deal with it. She knew he had a problem, she knew that he was exceptionally intelligent. Look at the pattern of young loner mass murderers in the USA in the last 30 years. Most of these kids were gifted and had what were considered personality problems, like so many of the great minds of history. What is different now is the interaction of the Multi National Pharmaceutical industry with psychiatrists who prescribe drugs to kids with out knowing what the real effects of what they are doing and outside the protocols of any real control of monitoring their effects. The other factor is the new phenomena of cyber interaction with media…coupled with un regulated and undocumented mood altering drugs used to control behavior we have a new kind of “self programming”…just look at what happens to kids in the US Military and the mental messes we have to deal with when some of these guys get out of their service…This is a story that is just beginning to unfold, but I really feel when the cards are folded, the onus will be on the Lilly corporation and their ilk and the American Psychiatric profession.
    I have to admit, I lost it on line yesterday dealing with some of my burn out born again Toledo friends who have emerged from their cannabis haze to become born again geezers…Reposting the same stuff about Jesus not being allowed in schools on facebook…This is senility.
    I live in a country that has banned jeezus, mohammed and all of their buddies from the education system for the last 200 some years and we have a per capita gun violence rate that is 1/10 of the USA! Jeebus won’t stop you from killing and killing again…grow up, shed your gills and evolve!

  6. I have to wonder if this Anonymous fellow is the same (Adam) who wrote a comment on that post. A comment that was just disgusting in nature. I really hope it’s not someone who I have always had respect for. But since someone tried installing Malware to my computer through that post, I will reply to Muddy’s comment here.

    “Might I ask a question, JOB? WHY do you feel it necessary to introduce your 8-year-old daughter to guns? How will this benefit her? Are you doing this for her or for you?”

    1-You can ask me anything Muddy. I felt it necessary because Illinois’ carry ban has recently been overturned by the Appellate Courts. I have had guns in my house since I was 22. So obviously, they have been here since my Daughter has been born. But she does not know I have them. When all the carry legislation is finally written, I will most likely apply. This will most likely not happen for a couple of years, at which time my Daughter will be ten. But the one thing I have always feared is my daughter looking at a gun as a toy, instead of an instrument of sport, recreation, but most importantly as polarized in the media, death. Introducing my daughter to guns is an attempt at respect. I’m not trying to arm her. I’m not trying to create a fanatic. I’m only thinking about teaching her respect. Respect for a weapon that is in the house where she resides.
    2- It will benefit her by teaching her that it is not a toy to be played with. That it IS a weapon that can cause great bodily harm, if not death.
    3- I would be doing this for her and me. Her, so that she never hurts herself, or others, or worse. Me, so that I would never have to worry about that happening.

    Now, I will add that I spoke to my Uncle, and he feels that in my situation, 12 would be a more appropriate age. My cousins had guns at 9 and 10, but they hunt. An Illinois State trooper friend of mine feels that High School age is appropriate. Regardless, I will be waiting quite awhile for this introduction for obvious reasons. which leads me to this.

    In my opinion, your anonymous(?) poster is the same Adam(?) that left this comment..(I here that the Bushmaster AR-15 is good with kids).
    That comment has since been deleted, as well as the whole post. I can’t help but wonder if your anonymous is the same one who tried installing the above mentioned mal ware.

    In closing, I posted that on 12-12, two days before that awful shooting. Your commenter links it yesterday. I thought you and Dottie were better than that. A father has a weapon in his home, and is asking for advise on how to teach a child respect for the object. And you two somehow figure out a way to intertwine that with what happened in Connecticut. And you do it because of an idea instilled on this blog by a guy who can’t even use his own name.

    1. Many are renewing talk of gun control after the shooting in Connecticut. I was wondering what the author of UncommonSqualor had to say on the subject now, as he has had plenty to say on that subject in the past.

      Several regular posters on UncommonSqualor have made veiled, and some not veiled, threats of physical harm to certain visiting posters who disagreed with the regulars (aka posse). Anyone challenging the posse with an opposing opinion should be very careful as the posse comes across as somewhat mentally unbalanced.

      The author of that blog, who goes by (behind) the screen name of Sepp, has often bragged about his large arsenal and his ability to obtain those firearms without any official documentation. On the day I visited his website, in the comment section there was a plea from you requesting advice on WHAT TYPE OF FIREARM for your eight year old child. Today, when I went to the UncommonSqualor website to re-confirm what I have written here, that particular post (like some of his other posts) had vanished.

      Asking Sepp for gun advice is like asking Hitler advice on Judaism. He prides himself on that.

      (In today’s computer world, you may be able to erase something you wrote, but it will live on in eternity somewhere.)

      1. and some not veiled, threats of physical harm to certain visiting posters…

        Do you mean like those junior high bullies you knew years back?? You know, it is my hypothesis that some grown men are stuck, psychologically, in adolescence and have never advanced into fully-functioning adult men.

      2. “Many are renewing talk of gun control after the shooting in Connecticut. I was wondering what the author of UncommonSqualor had to say on the subject now, as he has had plenty to say on that subject in the past.”
        That was your intention? How come you didn’t directly ask him on his own blog? Why did you involve me and my blog?

        “Several regular posters on UncommonSqualor have made veiled, and some not veiled, threats of physical harm to certain visiting posters who disagreed with the regulars (aka posse). Anyone challenging the posse with an opposing opinion should be very careful as the posse comes across as somewhat mentally unbalanced.”
        What is so different from that posse and what you are trying to accomplish here? I ask this because your original comment was that you “know, let’s arm our kids”. You then provided a link to my blog post and directed people to read the comments. No where in that post, or comments was there anyone advocating children carrying guns. Nowhere. But you used Muddy’s blog to get the reaction you were looking for didn’t you?

        “The author of that blog, who goes by (behind) the screen name of Sepp, has often bragged about his large arsenal and his ability to obtain those firearms without any official documentation. On the day I visited his website, in the comment section there was a plea from you requesting advice on WHAT TYPE OF FIREARM for your eight year old child. Today, when I went to the UncommonSqualor website to re-confirm what I have written here, that particular post (like some of his other posts) had vanished.”
        That’s not true, My comment on Sepp’s blog is still there. Here’s the link.
        http://uncommonsqualor.blogspot.com/2012/12/farmers-irrelevant.html
        I don’t know about Sepp’s arsenal, or his purchasing habits. What I do know is that he raised kids in a house that had guns. The rest of your comment leads me to believe that you are a little unhinged. Sepp never commented on my thread. On my post that I deleted, there was never a plea, and it wasn’t on Sepps blog.

        “(In today’s computer world, you may be able to erase something you wrote, but it will live on in eternity somewhere.)”
        You are right. My post is currently on some goofy device that will be handed over to the I.T. guys at my wife’s work.

    2. P.S. I don’t do nasty things when I can use my communicaion skills. If you have a virus, it wasn’t me. Must have been someone tired of the lame excuses people use for needing so many guns.

    3. JOB- thank you for your thorough answer re your 8-year-old daughter. I agree with your Uncle that 12 would be more appropriate.

      Apparently the mother of the shooter in Sandy Point took her son to the range later in life and she detected no aggression in him while there. There was no gun fantasy displayed by her son, yet she was worried about his strange behaviors and his ‘solitude.’ Apparently she was not able to ‘read’ her son too well. Yet, she did not lock the guns away from him. What the hell was that all about???

      1. I’ll be honest with you Muddy. Friday’s events have really f##ked me up. I just started getting details of the crime today, because I had Princess with me all weekend and I didn’t feel like explaining this to her. Maybe I shield her too much, but non of us are perfect Fathers. I just read on a blog that the mother was some sort of survivalist stock piling for an economic collapse. As I said, I just started reading all the articles and gathering info.
        Right now, I’m leaning more towards high school age for my daughter.

        1. My son takes his soon-to-be 13-year-old son to the pistol range occasionally. My grandson likes it, but I haven’t been there to watch his reaction to the weapon. I hope he doesn’t feel ‘cool’ shooting it- if you know what I’m thinking. Further, he DOES play video games including Call of Duty Black Ops. I hope that he can distinguish the difference between real guns and virtual guns.

          Two weeks ago, my son invited his 9-year-old to come along to the range. He did, but chose not to go out into the range area. There was too much ‘action’ out there for him. The boys differ greatly in personalities, and perhaps that is why one love it and the other ‘doesn’t want to come back.’

          You’ve got to know your children and be open to the possibility that she may not enjoy the experience.

          1. “Further, he DOES play video games including Call of Duty Black Ops. I hope that he can distinguish the difference between real guns and virtual guns.”
            This may set your mind at ease. Do you remember a show on Showtime called “Penn & Tellers Bullshit”? They did an episode on gun control. In that episode, they did a quick segment on violence in video games and how some people claim it desensitizes children to real life violence. So they show this 11 year old kid sitting in his living room playing these Call of Duty type games. So the production crew takes this kid to s shooting range, and he meets the instructor. After a few minutes with the instructor, the man takes the child and his mother with him to the firing range. He shows the boy an Assault rifle. I can’t remember the weapon, but I remember it was semi-auto, not full auto. The kid gears up with safety glasses and ear protection. The instructor lays next to him on the ground and with instruction, the child fires one round at a target. The kid sets the gun down, takes off the safety gear, and quietly walked away to his Mom’s side. Then they move to different some different stories. But at the end of the show, when the credits started rolling, they went back to the child with his Mom. They were off in a corner. The mother was hugging the child as he sobbed uncontrollably.
            I hope that helps.

            “You’ve got to know your children and be open to the possibility that she may not enjoy the experience.”
            This is where I think things got spun by your “Anonymous” commenter Muddy. Instead of the despicable comment he left on my post, all he had to do was ask what my intentions were, but he didn’t. So I’ll tell you. I’m hoping she doesn’t enjoy the experience. I want to incorporate respect for the weapon through fear. Two reasons. First, as I told you, I will most likely become a conceal/carry permit holder within a few years. Now I will not carry my gun every where, because I feel that is unnecessary. But there are places that my Daughter likes to go that forces us to drive through some shady neighborhoods. In those instances, I would have my side arm in the car with me. She will most certainly see this and the questions will start. Second, and this is my biggest concern. My daughter is making new friends and she spends quite some time at there houses. I don’t know exactly what happens in her friend’s houses. I’ve met the parents, but how do I really know? I recently found out that my daughter’s best friend’s mother smokes in their house around the children. Now what do I do? My Mom smoked in front of me at the Dinner table. I smoke, trying to quit for the umpteenth time, but I smoke regardless. But I do not smoke in the house, and I do not smoke in the car when I have Princess with me. But what do I do about her friend’s Mom? I don’t want to say something to her, because that just seems rude. I can’t tell Princess that she can no longer go over there. Now what if another friend has a Mom or Dad who owns a gun? I own three guns, but when they are here, they are locked in a certified gun safe. So I don’t worry about my daughter or her friends when they’re here. But what if her friend’s parent has a gun that they keep on top of the refrigerator? Or in a drawer next to their bed? That is my BIGGEST FEAR. I am starting to realize that I can not control what happens at Princess’ friend’s houses. What if one of these kids wants to play with the gun, and my daughter gets shot? I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.

            Whether she hates guns or loves them. I just want her to respect them for what they are. A tool that can kill people. Sorry for the rambling, but I hope this clears up your perception of me as a father, and what I’m thinking about when it comes to guns.

  7. J.O.B…all I did was comment on the direction the post took me in and yes, I’m still really even more depressed now that you feel you have to comment on how I feel about this issue…that my reaction “disappoints” you….we are different. Don’t tell me what you think I should feel, and I’m not accusing you of that…just don’t go there!

    1. So Dottie, what about my post, or any of my comments on that post depressed you? Are you saying that your feelings about it are in no way persuaded by what happened on Friday?

    2. While watching even more news coverage tonight, it dawned on me that what is really depressing is that some people still don’t get it. We live in a society where more and more guns are getting into the hands of people who should never own one. And they are teaching their children this mentality.

      And then they wonder where we come up with this idea of a violent society. And when you try to reason with them, BAM, here come those threats again. And they don’t understand why we refrain from engaging them in a productive conversation.

      So I ask this question, which do you find more revolting, the ones who continue to say “violence is the answer to violence” or the ones who claim “it was God’s will”?

      1. “While watching even more news coverage tonight, it dawned on me that what is really depressing is that some people still don’t get it. We live in a society where more and more guns are getting into the hands of people who should never own one. And they are teaching their children this mentality.”
        Who owns guns that should not own them? What children are you speaking of?

        “And then they wonder where we come up with this idea of a violent society. And when you try to reason with them, BAM, here come those threats again. And they don’t understand why we refrain from engaging them in a productive conversation.”
        Who ever questioned your ideas of a violent society? Who has threatened you after you tried reasoning?

        “So I ask this question, which do you find more revolting, the ones who continue to say “violence is the answer to violence” or the ones who claim “it was God’s will”?
        I find both ideologies revolting. But since your first statement is practiced by our own Government, I would have to say that the last statement is more revolting.
        I have another question for you NON. Do you find the tactics used by the “Anonymous” commenter are justified? Do you feel that it is wrong to teach a child respect for a weapon that is inside their home? Do we not do the same thing when we teach our children to not run with scissors? At what point do you think it crosses a line, when a man tries to prove a point while gaining acceptance?

  8. I’ve been shot at, I spent a week in hospital after being stabbed, I’ve been beat up…a few times, and I have to say in my own defense, I never backed down and one thing I have learned is that I am not afraid. I understand why people have guns. Many of my friends hunt here. It is the culture and I wouldn’t argue with that at all. I personally will not have a gun. I refuse to live my life as if I need that fetish security blanket to make me feel secure. If I was part of the hunting culture here, perhaps I would own one. I have shot guns. I find black powder arms pretty interesting. I like explosions, I used to blow things up as a child and got into quite a bit of trouble with my friends with our “experiments”.
    I won’t try to morally equivocate the fact that governments use violence with how I run my life and the meme of god and education is totally ridiculous to me. I live in a land where god hasn’t been in the classroom for over 200 years, but the statistical rate of firearm violence is 1/10th of America’s. God won;’t stop you from killing and killing again…how many atrocities have been committed in the name of the lord? Perhaps Europeans have the onus of living in their own history that is far and removed from the romanticized version of American gun eroticism. It’s very painful trying to formulate and organize intelligent logical ideas about America and violence.Especially in the immediate after math of what happened in Newtown. I have written a lot on the role that the American pharmaceutical industry and the abuse of a unmonitored mental health system has played in the background of most of the bizarre mass murders perpetrated by young adults in America in the last 30 years.I just wrote a piece that brings up the facts of how the actions of Ronald Reagan in California and the budget cuts in New York State in the 80’s closed many mental health facilities in a false budget move, that has only cost America billions more.
    When I read JOBs piece, I didn’t even look at the date. It was at the top of his blog. Too bad, JOB, that’s rather ironic in a bad karma sort of way, wasn’t it? Perhaps that’s the way you really felt the day you wrote it. I would never consider giving my little daughter her own gun and then making her confront the ugly reality of having to use it on another person and the psychological implications of having to deal with the facts that construct the logic behind your actions
    That is the way I feel at the present time. With me, facts are an ever moving tapestry. I can’t say I know anything for sure, because the condition of my knowing anything is dependent on what I am constantly learning. But, I know what I feel, I know who I am and as we say here in France…et voila!.

    1. “Too bad, JOB, that’s rather ironic in a bad karma sort of way, wasn’t it? ”
      Not really Dottie and I have to ask how you reach that conclusion. My post involved introducing a child to certain weapons that are in her home. How does what happened in Connecticut with a mentally unhinged kid shooting a bunch of first graders translate to the concerns I have?

      ” I would never consider giving my little daughter her own gun and then making her confront the ugly reality of having to use it on another person and the psychological implications of having to deal with the facts that construct the logic behind your actions”
      Where in my post did anyone talk about having their child use a weapon against people? Against any thing for that matter? The reality is the confrontation of said weapon, not training her to use it against other people or other living beings

      Since we share the same background with injuries suffered by weapons, you have even more respect than you had before. But where in my post or comments, did I come close to stating that I wanted to arm my daughter? Where did I say that I wanted to turn my daughter into a “Killing Machine”?
      Where did I say that I wanted my 8 year old girl to start carrying a gun?
      Is it possible Dottie, that you read the comments posted here by “Anonymous”, went to my blog and saw the post. And without thoroughly reading that post, formulated your own opinion? Based off of a combination of what you saw here, what you saw at my blog, and what happened Friday. Is it possible that you formulated your opinion on those three factors?

  9. Frankly, I didn’t read very much of the commentary here, I was replying to you and attempting to communicate my own thoughts and feelings. I never said or implicated any of the things you implied that I said in your post above in my comments. As I said in my comment, it’s very hard to talk about this in the light of what has occurred and you have to step back, cool down, don’t dig yourself into a deeper ideologically emotional pit. I try very hard to understand your rational, believe me. What I try to say is in all sincerity. It’s hard to not be emotional and over react here. I would rather attempt to keep our common ideals as the real goal. I know you have a good heart. I won’t for a moment doubt that you have the best interests of daughter as the basis of your actions. Please, believe me.

    1. I believe you Dottie, and my apologies if I took something the wrong way. Yesterday was a rough one man.

  10. I would ask that the commentary here focus on the issues and substance of the thread and not on those who make comments.

    1. I have been watching a lot of TV the last few days, and you are absolutely right. We should be focusing on the issues. One expert, who I disagreed with at first, made the point that focusing on individuals takes away energy that should be focused on the causes of such acts.

      1. That is where I seem to disagree with the rest of the country. These families deserve privacy. They deserve a peaceful mourning process.
        Yet cameras are showing up at the funerals.

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