Well Here We Go Once Again

A while back I did a posting called “The Comstock Law.”

https://manwiththemuckrake.wordpress.com/page/3/

In essence the posting spoke on how the “Knee-Jerk Reactionary Legislation” that the “Religious Right” led by Anthony Comstock, a devout Christian, in 1873 getting a law passed which made birth control devices and even information on birth control illegal and could land you in jail.

I had made the statement, (Isn’t it odd that today in 2012 we are still hearing these same argumentative statements from the Religious Right?) with a comment reply, “Not odd, but pathetic. Not a surprise, either because, after all, what does conservative mean if not a return to the past?”

Well one of the comments to the posting asked, “But would you agree that things were much different back then? Or are you setting out to prove that we are in the same boat in 2012?”  Well I restated and gave the examples of not only in the late 1800’s when just having birth control methods information would get you a prison sentence but also in the late 1960’s when birth control methods were still restricted to come by? I can also give you the example of “The Birth Control Pill” was not approved by the FDA until the early 1970’s and it was violently opposed by the Religious Right for its approval because it was really aborting an impregnated egg through chemical hormonal means.

Now I can give the current events examples going on today yet once again here in 2012, the same old same old tired crap, of fanning a political firestorm, House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner joined an outcry from religious leaders and social conservatives over a requirement that health insurance plans, including those dealing with the general public at Catholic hospitals, charities and universities, offer birth control in their medical insurance to their women employees.  The goal once again is to make the current law “Illegal and Repealed!”

These hospitals, charities, and universities employ non-Catholic people, and even noting about 95% plus of Catholic women disregard the Church’s mandate on the subject and are taking the birth control pill for their female health factors.  If it was just a contained “Catholic Church” employees’ issue, they may have an argument, but we are talking about employees of hospitals, and universities, relating to their female employees’ health issues.

It is much like the crazy Don Quixote who went off fighting the windmills in his mind.­…
This issue is not even driven by the Republican’s traditional masters, “Big Business,” because insurance companies and employers would rather pay for the cheap pills than the enormous cost of hospitali­zation, the work time lost, and economic burden of actually having an unplanned child birth…..which would also end up on the family’s health care insurance plan.

These culture wars for cheap political points at someone else’s expense, HAS GOT TO STOP NOW!

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45 thoughts on “Well Here We Go Once Again

  1. I saw that at least 6 Republican Senators who had once co sponsored a federal contraception mandate in 2001…including Snowe and Collins are now agin’ it.
    Frankly, the controversy seems to be driven by the Konsortium of Konservative Katholic Bishops who having failed miserably in promoting their regressive views through dogmatic threats of fire and brimstone, now are resorting to attempting to manipulate the government into doing the job they failed at.
    If a woman went into a confessional 25 years ago and confessed to a priest that she was using contraception, she might expect a lecture from the priest telling her that she was no better than a common street walker. Today, the view on the ground is sort of like the military’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” Real polling has illustrated that most sexually active Catholic women of child bearing age have violated the rule against contraception at one time or another. But organized religion is not a democracy and majority opinion really doesn’t matter. Catholic dogma holds that artificial contraception is against the law of God. The bishops have the right — a right guaranteed under the First Amendment — to preach that doctrine to the faithful. They have a right to preach it to everybody. Take out ads. Pass out leaflets. Put up billboards in the front yard. That’s their right.
    The problem here is that they’re trying to get the government to do their work for them. They’ve lost the war at home, and they’re now demanding help from the outside.
    And they don’t seem in the mood to compromise. Church leaders told The National Catholic Register that they regarded any deal that would allow them to avoid paying for contraceptives while directing their employees to other places where they could find the coverage as a nonstarter.
    Conversely, the Bishops argument would seem to be:
    “If a survey found that 98 percent of people had lied, cheated on their taxes, or had sex outside of marriage, would the government claim it can force everyone to do so?”
    Religion is not a democracy, the Conservative Catholic hierarchy as always tended to lean towards fascistic metaphysical threats to coherce behavior. It’s no surprise that the easiest path they take is the oldest path of fascist propaganda…to portray themselves as victims. In extending contraceptive aid to all Americans, somehow it is an assault of their religious freedom.
    It is so vital to recognize the illogic of the Bishops arguments, the very hypocrisy they use to try to force their views, their militant conservative morality on a secular nation. A numbner of Catholic Universities have offered contraception in their employee health care packages for many years, but under this renewed assault, are these plans now in danger?

    1. The question my friends is not who supports or is against birth
      control, but is a government mandate on religious theology and
      practice forbidden by the First Amendment. The Amendment
      clearly states that there should be NO LAW preventing the free
      exercise of religion.

      Is this just another example of the Democrats seizing defeat from
      the jaws of victory? V-P Biden said as much to the President, but
      what does Joe know. Moreover, since the Supreme Court will
      shortly hear and rule on the health care reform act, why issue the
      mandate at this time. If the Court rules it unconstitutional, what
      has the President lost. The election? Additionally, why does the
      President in this case listen to Jarrett and the First Lady’s Chief for
      his counsel, and not the very politically astute Biden? Just as the
      GOP was destroying themselves, the President gives them a large
      softball to hit. Even when the compromise is announced, he is a
      loser. The upcoming Polls ought to give us a clearer picture of the damage.

      1. The Amendment
        clearly states that there should be NO LAW preventing the free
        exercise of religion.

        Your interpretation of that mandate, my friend, would not hold up in SCOTUS. Catholics are not being ‘banned’ from practicing their faith; the FEDS are not ordering the military to block access to church doors. The church is whining because they have to provide all services that their insurance policy designates.

        Hospitals and universities run by ‘Catholics’ are not Catholic-only institutions and therefore must abide by fair labor laws and cannot discriminate against their employees- which is in effect what they are attempting to do.

        The right-wing seized on this issue because they have no other issue to bash Obama with. He’s cooped their economic and national defense arguments so all that is left are the usual box of cultural canard that the right-wing lets loose each election cycle. Trouble is, those canards are awfully old these days and few people are buying them.

        On Ohio’s November ballot will be some of those usual red herrings, put there by the GOP to attempt to draw votes from traditional Democratic voters such as a ‘personhood amendment’ similar to the one that voters in your state soundly defeated. But it does skim off some of the more conservative Catholic votes.

        What else does the GOP have to offer The People except these cultural red herrings?

        By the way, Herman ‘the adulterer’ Cain endorsed Joe the Plumber at CPAC yesterday. Cain will be in Toledo for the Lincoln Day dinner [$75] and I’m sure that his newest toady will be standing with him. What a pair that makes! Gasp!

  2. Here’s some “inside” information on my Roman Catholic Church:

    1.Popes Pius, John, Paul and John Paul made efforts to keep the Church current. Never add the “I” after John Paul’s name because there were no “seconds” when he was alive. John Paul II was a number two.

    2. After Pope John Paul’s abrupt and mysterious death (they wouldn’t allow an autopsy), Pope John Paul II tries to turn things around.

    3. As Pope John Paul II slips into dementia (I’m guessing prior to 1995), a Cardinal Ratzinger begins to runs things.

    4. Surprise! After Pope John Paul II (an insult to the memory of Pope John Paul) dies, the Cardinals elect Ratzinger Pope. Did I mention that the Cardinals are appointed by the sitting Pope. Interestingly, very similar to the way the Communist Party operates.

    5. Almost immediately, Ratzinger (I refuse to call him pope anything) attempts to speed up the reversal of Church doctrine.

    6. The Second Vatican Council (Vatican II), which took place from 1962 to 1965, brought big changes to the Roman Catholic Church.

    7. Ratzinger is trying to reverse the changes made in Vatican II. My understanding is that some of the “more” Catholic countries, mostly third world, prefer the way things used to be (more controlling like their own governments). I find it strange how the governments of these countries welcome the new pope so much more warmly than they did the Popes of yore.

    8. Currently the Pope really only controls the actual church parishes through actual ownership by the Bishops. When a Bishop dies, they trot down to the government building and change the deeds. If they stay out of politics (ya, right), I say let them be tax exempt, considered charitable by the IRS, and able to set their own health insurance policies. Right now the only difference between them and Super Pacs is that donations made to churches are tax deductible.

    9. Most (all?) Catholic schools, universities and hospitals are owned by orders of religious persons, not by the actual Church. I have it from a excellent source, the Pope is trying to take control of those institutions. Right now in Toledo I believe only the primary schools are Church owned where the high schools are owned and run by the orders. Same with the universities (i.e. University of Notre Dame). I happen to be “connected” to UND through donations that would never have taken place if the Church controlled the University.

    So there you have it. Although I’m not real strong on the notion of tax exemption for the churches. I don’t see them staying out of politics.

    1. Very good research NON. Of course, there are many ignorant Catholics who would call your data heresy! But then, there are lots of intelligent ‘heretics’ awaiting eternal damnation.

      Get in line.

  3. Hello Microdot,
    Where I stated that these cheap political points at someone else’s expense, has got to stop now….they will never stop because mankind’s stupidity is eternal.

  4. Another excellent post, Engineer!

    You said, 95% plus of Catholic women disregard the Church’s mandate on the subject True, very accurate. You’d think by this fact that there would be no ‘outrage’ by Catholics since we know that they disregard this church ‘teaching’ [read law].

    So, why the ‘outrage?’

    You nailed it, Engineer. The ‘outrage’ is threefold: first, the hierarchy of the church do not like their power curtailed; second, the insurance companies that you detail above; third, the GOP lawmakers and politicians who find this red herring an appropriate food to feed the Catholic voter, especially in this presidential election year.

    If we take this ‘religious objection’ to reductio ad absurdum, every storefront preacher could object to some government rule which curtails his nutty ‘faith belief.’

    When, oh when! When will this nation loosen the bonds of religious stupidity and prejudice that hold its citizens captive?

  5. Hello NON,
    My wife and both daughters were raised Catholic and do have respect for the religion. I wanted to make sure I took the time to read what you posted. It is still too early for me and the kid’s show Curious George is about as challenging as I can deal with at first start.

    But now the toast and eggs are consumed and the coffee is hot so I can now give my undivided attention to your comment.

    I grew up in a very Catholic neighborhood suburb of Baltimore and I remember well Vatican II when the mothers and daughters quit wearing the full head scarf and (I don’t say this disrespectful but more to the lack of the correct term) “doilies” hair pinned to their heads, because they no longer had to keep covered in church. This is when Latin was no longer spoken during mass too, right? Of course many Catholic adults thought it was wrong not to speak Latin during mass. More particularly the Grandmothers and many continued to cover their heads because they just did not feel right not to.

    There was a large Catholic church and private Catholic School in my neighborhood and when we would go over to our friend’s house to gather up kids for a football or baseball game, many times I had to sit and wait in their bedrooms while my friends said their “Hail Mary’s” and “Our Fathers” before they could go out to play. Like I said, we were kids and no one gave it a second thought either way.

    You bring up very good points worth discussions and one to consider of “the Pope really only controls the actual church parishes through actual ownership by the Bishops. When a Bishop dies, they trot down to the government building and change the deeds. If they stay out of politics (ya, right), I say let them be tax exempt, considered charitable by the IRS, and able to set their own health insurance policies. Right now the only difference between them and Super Pacs is that donations made to churches are tax deductible.”

    And you continue, “Most (all?) Catholic schools, universities and hospitals are owned by orders of religious persons, not by the actual Church. I have it from an excellent source; the Pope is trying to take control of those institutions. Right now in Toledo I believe only the primary schools are Church owned where the high schools are owned and run by the orders. Same with the universities (i.e. University of Notre Dame). I happen to be “connected” to UND through donations that would never have taken place if the Church controlled the University.
    So there you have it. Although I’m not real strong on the notion of tax exemption for the churches. I don’t see them staying out of politics.”

    Very True as the Catholic Church, to the best of my knowledge, has always been very vocal and prominent in politics. One example that comes to mind was the very popular “Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen” in the first half of the century who was frequently outspoken on world events of his time and was quite the oxymoron too while doing so.

    Sheen stirred controversy with strong statements on such topics as communism, socialism, the Spanish Civil War, World War II diplomacy, psychiatry, secularism, education, and the left in general. He often attacked liberal Protestantism: “Satan’s last assault was an effort to make religion worldly.”

    Yet Sheen defied efforts to place him on the political left or right. He was equally critical of monopolistic capitalists, irresponsible labor union leaders, and idealistic advocates of the welfare state. He eschewed all forms of earthly utopianism. Still, he often supported reform, eager to help create a world rid of inequality, insensitivity, hatred, crime, and corruption. In 1967, he fell under attack from the right by opposing the Vietnam War. He was the first American bishop to attempt to implement in a diocese the full teachings of the Second Vatican Council, producing severe criticism from conservatives. He was also against “Birth Control” in any form.

    This all being said, I feel if you do business and employ non-Catholics, (and they cannot discriminate if you are not Catholic) I find it wrong not to have insurance that would protect not only women’s reproductive health but other health issues that need to be considered. I would give the example of teenage girls or young adult women with serve acne, (because it is an issue of hormonal imbalance,) are given birth control to balance the hormones reducing the deeply embedded red inflammation and scaring of facial tissue. This too would not be covered due to the restriction of the insurance. There are other examples such as regulating a woman’s menstrual cycles that have an irregular cycle period. So there is much more to be consider here than just the Catholic Church’s opposition to “Birth Control” mandate.

    1. I agree with everything you say. I am frustrated when my very Roman Catholic female family members jump to support this latest proclamation. There is no way every single one of them has not used birth control at some point in their lives. And the only birth control I can imagine that doesn’t “abort” a fertilized fetus is a mechanism that would totally halt the egg and sperm from getting together in the first place. And of course condoms and/or dental dams are a form of birth control. And according to Anita Bryant, oral sex is murdering children by swallowing. (Sorry, but she really did state it just that way.) And I don’t think spitting is a way around it either.

      Humorous side-note: When I explained to my spouse why I was late for breakfast this morning (because of posting), the reply was “Oh, playing Martin Luther again?”

      1. doesn’t it begin to feel that the conservative movement with their choice of issues and faux outrage seems to really have lost their sense of reality? They really have no connection to the way most Americans feel today. It’s an echo chamber and hopefully, the din they clog their brains up with will drown out the sound of the rest of us….Like Roves “outrage” over Clintwood’s Chrysler ad…who’s really listening to that shit?

        1. Hello Microdot,
          My, everyone has really been busy this morning. With reference to Roves “outrage” over Clintwood’s Chrysler ad…who’s really listening to that shit?…I truly hope no one does but I never underestimate the level of ignorance from some people.

      2. Hello NON,
        YOU mean women have the option of spitting too?!?! Who made that rule? :-)

        Help me out here, I am under the impression that anything other than rhythm method is not allowed as the official doctrine by the Pope.

        1. Geez….it took me a second (OK, a little longer) to realize you were kidding. I seem to remember being taught that the rhythm method is the only form allowed by the Church. Until it was precisely explained to me, I thought it was a description of how “you do it”, not how often. At the time I thought how much fun could sex be if you had to keep time.

          Would Rick Santorum even approve of the rhythm method?

          And of course you left me an opening for my very old and often used joke:

          Q: What do you call people who use the rhythm method?

          A: Parents

  6. This is classic! A textbook example of hypocrisy. How the media, the Conservatives pick and choose how they define morality. The Catholic Bishops issue their fatwah regarding the Administrations Contraception Benefit Policy…the Republicans immediately pick up on it and try to use it as a political tool. No one seems to remember that The U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops has been quietly lobbying Congress to keep extended unemployment insurance for the long term jobless population of America.
    Just this Monday, Bishop Stephen E. Blaire sent a letter to members of the House of Representatives urging them to focus on the economic security of workers at year’s end.
    “When the economy fails to generate sufficient jobs, there is a moral obligation to help protect the life and dignity of unemployed workers and their families,” Blaire wrote. “Therefore, I strongly urge you and your colleagues to find effective ways to assure continuing Unemployment Insurance and Emergency Unemployment Compensation to protect jobless workers and their families.”

  7. Hello Microdot,
    The lobbying to extend Unemployment Insurance and Emergency Unemployment Compensation to protect jobless workers and their families is one issue I can stand side by side with the Catholic Church. GOOD FOR THEM!!!

    Allow me to pass on this story:
    I along with two other co-worker engineers were laid off from the Engineering firm we worked for over two years ago because of the total loss and lack of engineering projects, and all needed the extended Unemployment Insurance because there were no jobs to be had anywhere. Not only in the state of Maryland, but any other state around. All of us were well educated, experienced, healthy, with good work habits; and were not able to find employment for the better part of 10 months.

    One co-worker was a 38 year old who had his Mechanical Engineering Degree from University of Maryland, had a house payment, newly married and a precious two year old little girl who loved her Daddy very much. He was lucky that his father-in-law was holding the mortgage on the home he was buying as they were purchasing it directly from him.

    The other co-worker was 52 years old and had his Mechanical Engineering Degree from University of Michigan, house payment, married, 12 year old son, but he was having to withdraw from his retirement 401K funds he had acclimated over the years plus the Unemployment Insurance just to keep his family feed and trying not to loose his house. He did loose thousands of dollars in taxes when he had to “Early Withdraw” from the 401K. He will never really recover financially by his retirement age as I said; he was already in his early 50’s.

    I on the other hand, I saw what was being done to the country in the early 2000’s by the W. Bush Administration, and told my wife to get everything paid off, bank as much money for a safety net as we can, so when (not if) the “W. Bush Inflicted Economic Crash” hit; we would be ready and what I got in Unemployment Insurance sustained us living moderately with no extras. During those early years of the W. Bush Administration I was trying to warn my co-workers to what was coming as I saw it long before it happened. I would add that I had no crystal ball but you cannot cut your input revenue as severely as the W. Bush Tax cuts, did but increase the spending to the “Drunk’in Sailor” likes that the W. Bush Administration did, in the mean time protecting the unscrupulousness of the banking industry’s management by null and voiding the intent of the Sarbanes–Oxley Act with his signature rider to that Bill,… and not have a financial ruining devastation crash as a result.

    I should also add that both had been Conservative Republicans and voted as such. The U of MD engineer had even been an Ann Coulter fan buying into her cheap bullshit crap.

    As we went though this time together, we supported each other mentally trying to keep our spirits up, and because of this, we keep in touch with each other today due to this bond. I have since pointed out and convinced them that if it was not for the Democratically Controlled Congress and Senate at that time lead by Nancy Polizzi, they would have all been tossed aside like used toilet paper by the same Conservative Republicans they had supported, with the long run of only having to fend for themselves with their families to suffer the most as they lost everything they had worked for their whole life plus destroying their own futures.

    My last conversation with both of them just a couple of weeks ago, I asked the question of who was there for you when your families need help……who was there when you needed the safety net extended that all of us paid into our whole working lives, and so who are you going to reward this next election….the God Loving Conservative Republicans or those filthy Liberal Democrats?

    The awakenment of that experience for both of them taught them the lessons well……Middle Class working people are not extreme Conservative Republicans.

    1. Wow, your story is sure sobering. My next door neighbors weren’t so lucky and lost their dream home. And they were about our age. Can you imagine working all your life and losing it because of actions by people you have no control over.

      I watched my older brothers get changed by Viet Nam and now I’m watching my younger brother going down after being laid off. The worst part is that he wanted Michele Bachman for President and Reagan’s head on Mount Rushmore. And his views haven’t changed!

  8. Hello NON,
    I am the last of the Viet Nam vets and then the Navy sent me to South America. After that tour I was sent to New York to be part of the Bicentennial Celebrations in July 4, 1976.

    When I think back to just then, “My how much our world has changed from the political viewpoints since then…..and not for the better.”

    Your younger brother maybe ripe for the extreme aspects just as the young Germans were in the 1920’s giving rise to the desperate grasp to the Nazi Party’s Hope to correct their economic conditions. This is the only reason I can see for anyone to support Michele Bachman for anything…. Desperation!!

    I hope I am wrong with this prediction because I would hate to see your brother going that radical after a personal financial ruin that was not his fault.

    1. Thanks, and funny you should mention my younger brother. After I posted that I was thinking maybe I should have him read your blog and see a person can be a good Republican without being an a–hole.

  9. Engineer of Knowledge Update:
    Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid, knowing that he is dealing with a large group of the lunatic fringe, of the radically right element, of the Republican Party within the Senate, came out against the current direction they were taking with regards to the “Birth Control” issue where the Republicans were trying to make an argument injecting religion into politics.

    Yes an exasperated Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid urged Republicans to “CALM DOWN” Thursday after they tried to offer an amendment that would destroy the bipartisan job creating $109 Billion dollar “Transportation Bill” aimed at countering “Birth Control” regulations under the current health care law.

    Harry Reid knows very well with foresight gained from years of experience, that you cannot piss off 50% of the voting population (that of being women) by legally regressing back to the days when “Birth Control” was hard to obtain or even made illegal….. especially in a Presidential Election year.

    I would urge all women of this country to take note on this “Freudian Slip” example of how the current extreme elements of the Republican Party REALLY feel about subjugating women to a subservient second class citizenry status, and vote as such to get them stopped this November. They do not deserve to keep their jobs for the benefit of the country as a whole!!!

    1. Remind me to point out to my mother that her own mother was not allowed to vote when she (my grandmother) turned voting age.

      (And could you believe it when the ERA amendment did not get 67% of the states to ratify it? Which, by the why, was not as bad as the women who campaigned against it.)

    2. the Republican Party REALLY feel about subjugating women to a subservient second class citizenry status…

      Surely, Engineer, women Republicans in your party are not stupid enough to support the continual effort on the part of the males in the party to keep them subjugated this way, are they? Or are so many of them abiding by the 1st century BC dictates of the Bible that they do not feel ‘worthy’ of sharing first-class citizenship?

  10. OFFTOPIC: Mr. Mud, are you going to the Obama Fundraiser on February 12th in Ottawa Hills? Want to go?

  11. Hello Muddy,
    You hit it on the head because for some Religious Conservative Republican men and woman believe that the Bible says that women should obey their husband’s mandate.

    It is in Genesis 3 you discover that one of the consequences of Eve’s sin in both eating the forbidden fruit herself and then subsequently encouraging Adam to join her in her sin, was that the initial pre-fall order of male headship is underscored and perhaps even in some way intensified by God; for God says to her “your desire shall be for your husband and he shall RULE OVER YOU.”

    So in essence, Women should obey their husbands like in “do you promise to Love, Honor, and OBEY!! They are not worthy of First Class Citizenship in this country.

    I also give you the example, as you may remember a while back, I did a piece on the Baptist Church in the Mid-West whose church leader mandated that women could not refuse to have as many children as the husbands wanted because male children were needed for the upcoming Armageddon war with the races. The men were also mandated to get their wives as pregnant as often as they can and the women were not allowed to use any form of Birth Control. The Southern Baptist Seminary President, Albert Mohler, explained that under-population was a pressing concern. Couples who choose childlessness are guilty of “rebellion against parenthood that represents nothing less than an absolute revolt against God’s design.”

    I have put the link below as it is worth a read again and for those who have not read this piece should inform themselves:

    http://engineerofknowledge.blogspot.com/2009/06/full-quiver-project.html

    1. in Genesis 3 you discover that one of the consequences of Eve’s sin…

      I wonder how many Bible-thumping women actually ‘believe’ that story? It is quite clear to me that this crap is not the word of God but rather the word of misogynistic men who prefer the first place in the social order. A ‘loving’ God would not order half of ‘his creatures’ to be less-than fully functioning humans.

  12. Epilogue:
    An Acceptable Compromise.
    Contraceptive services for women employed by the religious based employers who do not want to step up and give proper medical coverage to their female employees, are having their medical care and coverage offered by “Free Of Charge Gratis” from the insurance companies. Of course I am sure a little bit will be taken out of everyone else’s insurance payments to cover this in the long run because as we all know, nothing is really FREE. :-)

    Well here seems to be the compromise answer with the insurance industry stepping up to the needs of their female customers. As I have stated before, “Insurance companies would rather pay for the cheap pills themselves than the enormous cost of hospitalization, the work time lost, and economic burden of actually having an unplanned child birth…..which would also end up on the family’s health care insurance plan.”

    My recourse in the future will be to mention this incidence when any of these religious related charities asks me for a contribution to their cause. I will just tell them that all of my charity money went to Planned Parenthood and there is none left because they (the religious based institutions) could not properly cover medically their own female employees. I have a choice too.

    1. Epilogue:An Acceptable Compromise = loss of cultural wedge issue for GOP. Now they will have to deal with REAL issues facing The People of this nation.

      1. I understand Fox News is stirring the pot. I say if churches want to participate in the free enterprise system, then they should be made to play by the same rules.

  13. Have you checked out the the creds of Father Jonathon Morris, the official Roman Catholic Church spokes priest on FOX? Are you familiar with the Legion of Christ? This is an even more secretive, multi billion dollar generating conservative order than the legendary Opus Dei. The founder of the order, Marciel Maciel, was finally disciplined in 2006 at age 85 for his well documented poly sexually perverse and drug lifestyle. He was tolerated by the church because he generated billions of dollars in Central America for the Vatican and recruited many priests and espoused the ultra conservative values of Ratzinger.
    They still exist, going strong with 800 priests, 2600 seminarians and a lay branch called Regnum Christi with over 75,000 members. They provide the two most visible spokespersons for the American media, Morris who is on FOX and Father Thomas Williams on CBS.
    Here’s a link to the sexcapade aspect of the organization, but if you want to dig deeper, you will be horrified:
    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/14/secretive-catholic-order-founded-by-accused-pedophile-under-fire/

  14. the final line in engineers piece
    “These culture wars for cheap political points at someone else’s expense, HAS GOT TO STOP NOW!”
    yes this is the immediate reality of the culture wars…but it is deeper than a culture war. it is the eternal opposition against progressive ideas, the fear of reality, war that regressive conservatism feels it must fight against human rights and progress.
    Here in the outback, and I’m sure it’s not very different than the American outback, there is a constant ideological battle against regressive racist and conservative ideas…as an outsider, I have been on the brunt of the attack a few times for promoting ecological issues that are in the face of a few who might stand to make short term profits from destroying the forest, destroying the ecosystem of the causse, polluting the groundwater…etc etc….so it’s easy for them, to band together to fight the outsiders who want to stop them from exploiting themselves because they want to destroy their world for immediate gain at the expense of their neighbors.
    Families who normally would destroy each other because of greed and inbred hatred in inter community and family factions can get together to hate the other…temporarily…like the alliance between orthodox zionists and the evangelical christians…who if they had to, would form an alliance with orthodox muslims…if they had to do it to fight the forces of progressive change. Why is it so easy for the Shiite Iranians to support the Alawite Muslims of Syria…who would be their normal enemies?
    This is deeper than one issue, this is the front line of the natural conservative resistance to progressive evolution that has occurred since man got up and started to “philosophize” and think for himself.

    1. Excellent analysis, Micdrodot and an equally powerful example from France of the universalism of the selfish gene that apparently pops up as a result of inbreeding. I especially enjoyed reading your line, factions can get together to hate the other…temporarily Isn’t that the truth! Reminds me of hillbillies in the Appalachians, for some odd reason.

      I’d like to explore your last line a bit more, maybe through a new thread, This is deeper than one issue, this is the front line of the natural conservative resistance to progressive evolution that has occurred since man got up and started to “philosophize” and think for himself. My initial question is, Why? The concept seems so regressive, so anti-expansive.

      1. hah, sometimes I think I live in the Appalachia of France…La Sechere is a real rural dogpatch…but, there is a lot of love here and I work pretty hard to earn it! I have a barn full of hay and I am feeding the cows of farmers who can’t get up here to feed their cows because of the weather…our roads are just beginning to be drivable. I got my first mail delivery in a week yesterday, so me and my dutch buddy who has a tractor are delivering hay to frozen cows and donkeys…and their herd of 18 horses…we are the outsiders, and I wonder how I am going to be paid back….probably in hay when the farmer whose cows I am feeding can get up here again….

    2. “…factions can get together to hate the other…temporarily…”

      I think that’s almost right. If you have ever listened to the Evangelicals, you would have heard their intense “dislike” of Roman Catholics. I suspect most Catholics aren’t really concerned with all employers offering birth control; in fact, I’d bet most Catholics want it included in their health plans. Seems only the far right fundamentalists* are so concerned about the plight of Roman Catholics regarding birth control.

      * And the only far right fundamentalists in the Roman Catholic Church seem to be the UNELECTED hierarchy who are desperately apprehensive about losing control of the masses.

      1. And the only far right fundamentalists in the Roman Catholic Church seem to be the UNELECTED hierarchy who are desperately apprehensive about losing control of the masses.

        You’ve nailed that one, NON!

    3. Hello Microdot,
      The statement, “eternal opposition against progressive ideas, the fear of reality, war that regressive conservatism feels it must fight against human rights and progress.”
      Very Well Stated as you have summed it up perfectly and as good as any I have heard.

  15. Hello All,
    “factions can get together to hate the other”…..what instantly comes to my mind is a couple of blog sites that promote beating up and even shooting those who disagree with their viewpoints. Some would even say extreme twisted views based solely on hate.

    Statements much like, “It’s THOSE PEOPLE who are causing all the problems of this country. As far as I’m concerned we should just get rid of them all.”

    Well let us review. Was this statement an original thought or a mindless based example, as we have all heard this before throughout history, just re-stating “The Final Solution.”

    It can be safely said that at the least, it is the summation of people with a weak mindset. This aspect has been here on earth since the beginning of the time when mankind first came into existence, and with the results from the lack of any progressive evolution, are well noted here today.

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