Tea Party Thoughts

Barack H. Obama may very well love America (that’s definitely debatable), but he is a decidedly bad American. The measure of that is his adherence to American principles and those are easy to find. They are laid out in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.  This statement was written by blogger Common Sense.

The Tea Party has been in the news and the op-ed pages lately. Our local newspaper reprinted several national op-eds on the topic of ‘hostage-taking’ attributed to the Tea Party ideologues in Congress. Most of those contend that the knot of right-wing ideologues in the GOP were willing to ‘cut the baby in half’ or ‘drive this nation over the cliff’ in order to maintain their ideological position. New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd titled her piece, “The “Invasion of the Alien Tea Party.” Cute title, damning indictment.  Hey, how about that 512 drop in the DOW yesterday!  Any connection to the ‘Fiddling while Rome burned’ or just a coincidence?

Back to Common Sense- he also made the statement, If we do lose our country it will be to the people who are ideologically on the left…. Their excesses have awakened many of those who were sitting on the sidelines.

Finally, one more so that we can get the ‘feel’ of the thinking of this example of right-wing ideology: Yesterday he questioned blog author, UptheFlag, What does “uptheflag” mean – you another America hater?

There you go. Let’s see, is there anything else? Oh yes, when I asked Common Sense on another blog [he has banned me from his] how much blame for the awful economy and debt belongs to GW Bush he replied, Drop the jingoistic “Bush lied, kids died” approach to your political life and learn something for a change.

Well, that about sums it up.

What did you all learn?

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49 thoughts on “Tea Party Thoughts

  1. Well, finally! I’ve been waiting for this discussion for a while.

    This “Common” clown is an example of how the “LIV”‘s are educated. First off, he constantly knocks public education, but he himself is public educated. He got a useless college degree, so he joined the military. That doesn’t mean he was ever in actual combat. After a couple of decades he got out and started to collect a GOVERNMENT paid pension AND was covered by…wait for it…A U.S. GOVERNMENT ADMINISTERED AND PAID FOR TOTAL HEALTH CARE PLAN. If case you aren’t familiar with this phony, he relentlessly rails against the new health care plan (he can have it, but fuck you).

    After “retiring”, he joined the private work force. Ya think he might become one of those nasty “liberal” double-dippers?

    Of course now he finds his degree useful. He uses it to hypostatize bogus history. What aggravates me is that the baggers never research/check his “facts”. They just vilify anyone who points out the deceit of his statements.

    And one more thing….what’s that quote about fanatics who censure anyone who disagrees with them, but still state they welcome discussion?

  2. Mud – You are amazing – I told you, I am not a TEA movement guy. They would laugh you out of the room if you brought that to a TEA meeting.

    Why don’t you try this? I challenge you to pick something from Wolf’s list (at http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/2/liberals-unmaking-of-barack-obama/) re-pasted here:
    “Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:
    * Two million-private sector jobs have been lost.
    * Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.
    * A record 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps.
    * Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.
    * National debt increased 35 percent, to $14.5 trillion, or $137,000 for each taxpayer.
    * National unfunded liabilities increased 47 percent, to $114.9 trillion, or a cool $1 million for each taxpayer (and this does not yet include Obamacare).
    * America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.”

    You remember that list. Pick one of those things and challenge all the intellectual candle power on your blog to prove it wrong. I don’t mean by attacking Wolf’s parentage, intellect, background or schooling. I mean by actually examining what he said and draw a conclusion using reason and factual data.

    That was your disconnect with me and I suspect it will always be. I tried to get to a single point on which we could agree. If we could do that – if we have one ground truth element on which we could both accept – it would be the basis for building understanding.

    I fully admit that it would be easier to wait and ship me off in a “boxcar to the tundra” as you threatened but that could take years and be very costly.

  3. My problem with the tea party is that they operate pretty much entirely on ideology, on what FEELS like it should be true, without objectively verifying that any of their notions on economy or government regulation are in fact accurate. Their economic theory is particularly flawed.

    Beyond that they tend to be a bunch of theocrats, who again, don’t care if what they believe is accurate – that idiot who promotes the ‘Wall Builder’ theory that we are a Christianity-specific nation is an example. They don’t let inconvenient things like facts, like objective metrics, like science, get in the way of their world view. Instead they would impose a fantasy based, religion as superstition ideal on the rest of us, while congratulating themselves on how they are doing it for our own good. What that really means is that they are arrogant idiots who believe they know best for all of us, and who don’t mind one bit taking away our liberty to differ as they impose this on us. Don’t even get me started on the bigoted, racist, eurocentric aspects of them. (

  4. Jeff- name calling? I’ll bet that you expected that kind of stuff ended when you and he left the playground in 6th grade, eh?

    Rather not. It is easier to name-call than to have an intelligent debate. Apparently that is more in line with that ideology.

    Apparently he does not disagree with your assessment of his ‘military’ career. I must then assume that he does get a GOVERNMENT pension and GOVERNMENT health-care. Naturally, it brings up the question- why does he hate the GOVERNMENT so much?

    Or does he only hate the part of GOVERNMENT that he doesn’t benefit from? Could that be it???

  5. Hello All. I thought I would pass on some notes for critical thinking people.
    Well let’s see:
    It is well noted with the world financial markets and even by Speaker of the House John Boehner’s comment to the Teabaggers, “Get Your Ass In Line” that the uncertainty of the Tea Party members in Congress that the concern is the U.S. may not make their payments on bank notes already incurred and accumulated over the decades. For this reason is why America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating. Not the President. (My son-in-law’s youngest brother worked on this bill for John Boehner’s office this past summer. This was the concern of the Republican Majority Speaker’s concerns of the unstable aspects that is the Tea Party within the Republican Party today.) Being a Republican myself I share this concern with the Speaker.

    The price of oil is based on the “Free Enterprise Speculative Commodities Markets” throughout the world. The fact that gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon did not come from the President’s office but from those who value the investment of the commodity much like another commodity, “gold,” hitting a high this past week, $1680/oz. By some people’s line of reasoning the President would be responsible for that too. In this case many people who invested their money when gold was $500/oz. is thanking him very much today. Of course this is a mute point as it is not reality.

    Actually as of today’s Economic Report stated that the economy added a total of 117,000 private sector jobs in July. That is better than consensus expectations for a gain of 84,000. This report was a bit better than the ADP report on Wednesday. That report showed 114,000 private sector jobs created, and the expectations were for the BLS to show 100,000 new private sector jobs. So if as some have attached the responsibility that, “Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent. Does the President get credit for this positive trend reducing the unemployment this past month by .1%? Some how I don’t think they will so it is really just a rhetorical question.

    Where some have stated, “Two million-private sector jobs have been lost,” is very true and accurate if this statistic is realized, started, and is taking into account from the years of 2006. So who was responsible for this happening at this time? Why was it not stopped then and corrected sooner? Again these are some rhetorical questions that don’t need a response.

    As I have often said, “Our time here on earth should be one of a self journey of enlightenment….and as we grow, educate, and seek illumination…..truths, facts, and logic will reveal themselves. No one needs to apologize for the corrections along the way.”

  6. Engineer, your comment, .and as we grow, educate, and seek illumination…..truths, facts, and logic will reveal themselves. ASSumes that people want illumination, growth and the truth. Surely you will not press right-wingers for these essentials, will you???

  7. Do you want to talk about me? Or do you want to talk about the economy? Or do you just want to shotgun insults around?

    Why don’t you try this? I challenge you to pick something from Wolf’s list (at http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/2/liberals-unmaking-of-barack-obama/) re-pasted here:
    “Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:
    * Two million-private sector jobs have been lost.
    * Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.
    * A record 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps.
    * Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.
    * National debt increased 35 percent, to $14.5 trillion, or $137,000 for each taxpayer.
    * National unfunded liabilities increased 47 percent, to $114.9 trillion, or a cool $1 million for each taxpayer (and this does not yet include Obamacare).
    * America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.”

    1. “Or do you just want to shotgun insults around?”

      Sorry Nonsense, you seem to be the one who set the mood. You remember, don’t you? All that nice ways you address fellow posters “little Jeff”, “shitbird”, ” take another Prozac”, things that must be “figments of your imagination, “…his own version of a self licking ice cream cone there.”, “Sepp – I see what you mean about Bi-Polar. I’m used the Mud being full time unreasonable …”, “If I was a psychologist I would opine that he sensed the trap, understanding that if he faced the truth that one time – his entire life would be BS.”, “… learn something for a change.”, “…Mud wouldn’t know “truth and facts” if they tattooed it on the inside of your eyelids.”, etc. I think you get the idea.

  8. So I guess I can take from this discussion that you dislike me – that’s okay, I really don’t care – but more importantly you agree with Dr. Wolf.

    Why don’t you try this? I challenge you to pick something from Wolf’s list (at http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/2/liberals-unmaking-of-barack-obama/) re-pasted here:
    “Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:
    * Two million-private sector jobs have been lost.
    * Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.
    * A record 1 in 7 Americans is on food stamps.
    * Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.
    * National debt increased 35 percent, to $14.5 trillion, or $137,000 for each taxpayer.
    * National unfunded liabilities increased 47 percent, to $114.9 trillion, or a cool $1 million for each taxpayer (and this does not yet include Obamacare).
    * America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.”

  9. We “dislike you”? How could we either like or dislike you as we don’t even know you? Is this another trip back to the grade school playground for you, CS?

    It seems that, from the comments here, it is the ideology that we ‘dislike.’

    Are you wed- body, soul and spirit- to your ideology? Is your ideology your life? Wow. If so, you have my condolences.

    I never heard of Dr. Milton R. Wolf and neither has Wikipedia The page “Dr. Milton R. Wolf Washington Times” does not exist. I then googled his name and I came up with “Fox and Friends.”

    At that point I threw up my breakfast on my keyboard.

  10. Copied from the Media Maters website:

    Dr. Milton R. Wolf is a radiologist in Kansas. He is Barack Obama’s second cousin once removed. President Obama’s great-great grandfather, Thomas Creekmore McCurry, is Dr. Wolf’s great-grandfather. Dr. Wolf’s mother, Anna Margaret McCurry, was five years older than Mr. Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham. The two were childhood friends until the Dunhams moved from Kansas to Seattle in 1955.

  11. A radiologist. Oh, I thought that he had a doctorate in history or political science or economics.

    A radiologist.

    Well. that settles the matter altogether. Doctor of radiology. No wonder there was no Wikipedia article on DOCTOR Wolfe.

    By the way, Common Sense, as this is perhaps your 12th comment here on Man with the Muckrake, how are you enjoying the FREEDOM of posting whatever nonsense you desire? And, what do you think of those ‘monitored’ blogs that require the blog owner to decide which comments they ‘like’?

    Freedom! Hard to find ‘freedom’ these days, eh Common Sense?

    Why, do you suppose, CS, that some blog owners monitor comments? Do they not like opposing views? Are they afraid of hearing the other side? Is their ego so fragile that they cannot face disagreement?

    …just wondering

  12. Common Sense,
    I posted negating the talking points you brought up. I gave examples and facts proving the nihilistic aspects of your talking points.

    It seems to me your are enjoying the “Flaming” aspects more that topic facts that disprove your viewpoints.

    1. Of course you did, Engineer. He chose to ignore your comments because he doesn’t ‘believe’ in the answers you provided.

      Maybe he has the ‘belief’ that politics is like a choice of religion- where one can ‘believe’ in stuff that they like, and not ‘believe’ in things that go against their grain.

      Who knows what goes on in their inner thoughts??

      1. Lordly, lordly….a little research on this Dr. Wolf sure is entertaining. I guess the biggest thing is that this bagger gives Tea Parties….oh, that and he lies a lot. I can see how CS relates to him. Did I mention that THE WASHINGTON TIMES sounds important and very reliable? It should because it is owned by the Honorable Rev. Moon (ya, the same one).

        (P.S. Media Matters couldn’t say enough bad things about this guy.)

        (P.S.S. Almost forgot, he’s also President’s Obama’s cousin. His second cousin once removed – aka: shirttail relative. Seems Fox News had him on because of his relation to the President. I guess second cousin once removed is enough to be tight with the President.)

  13. Geez! Sometimes I overlook the obvious. All these baggers are whining how “Obama’s” debt “compromise” forced the U.S. credit rating down. Seems the reason for the downgrading I keep hearing is the lack of a tax increase to pay back the debt. Now let me think, who was it that fought tooth and nail to keep any tax increases out of the deal or they wouldn’t vote for it (and send the world financial markets straight down the tubes)?

    Anyone want to discuss that? CS?

  14. “Any connection to the ‘Fiddling while Rome burned’ or just a coincidence?”

    Now that is a good question to put forth. However, how do we prove it was Boehner, the rest of the Republicans or GOP like Cantor, Ryan, et al that led to the debt limit crisis and the down grading by Standard and Poor’s. Yes, the President had a request of 4 Trillion to be cut and Boehner backed away
    and apparently Standard and Poor’s is saying it needed to be the 4 Trillion.
    Moreover, the S & P is apparently that their decision is not based on the U.S.
    economy, but on the political ability of the U.S. to enact the debt cutting
    legislation, because the debt ceiling voting showed that raising revenues could
    not be done. S & P said that it saw “the difficulties of bridging the gulf
    between the political parties” over a credible deficit reduction plan.

    Fox News, in quotation marks, is saying that it is the President who caused the down grade. That we don’t need revenue, need more cutting and removal of
    regulations. They only put on GOP politicians, news analysts, market gurus,
    economists who all claim that it is Obama who destroyed the credit rating
    of the U.S. You know, the same pitch that says it was Reagan alone who caused the collapse of the Soviet Union, they now say no other person caused the credit collapse but Obama.

    We have to be able to rebutt these wrongheaded comments. The question is how?

  15. Thanks for the head start, EOK and Jeff. Hope to hear more from you and
    others how we nail this S&P downgrade onto the GOP of all stripes. And, it’s not only the downgrade, right? It’s the lack of any job bills, the cutting of the
    FAA for 2 or 3 weeks and re-authorization in September, their tax policy idiocy, the lack of income growth for the 95 percenters, their un-American
    tax pledge to a non-government agitator(Nordquist), their call for an end to
    regulations across the board, their call for repatritation of incomes earned
    off shore for the large corporations robbing us of jobs and income, and whatever else(leaving out socio-religious affairs).

    There was another good editorial cartoon in my local newspaper here in
    Jackson today. It’s a split image entitled “Selling Apples” On one side is
    a man from the 1930’s selling apples for 3 cents with a sign saying, “feed
    my family. On the other side is a man of today saying only: USED IPAD?

    If these type of cartoons are being listed in Southern newspapers, in the
    heart of the Deep South GOP bastion of power, M_R, I think they PEOPLE
    are getting it. The conditions are riping, my friend….

  16. Over there on the right-side of the multiverse, they keep pinning the downgrade on Obama. Of course, whom else would they ‘blame’ for anything that goes wrong? After all, he’s Satan incarnate.

  17. Here is what S&P said:

    ” President Barack Obama laid out his Administration’s medium-term fiscal consolidation plan, aimed at reducing the cumulative unified federal deficit by US$4 trillion in 12 years or less. A key component of the Administration’s strategy is to work with Congressional leaders over the next two months to develop a commonly agreed upon program to reach this target. The President’s proposals envision reducing the deficit via both spending cuts and revenue increases.

    Key members in the U.S. House of Representatives have also advocated fiscal tightening of a similar magnitude, US$4.4 trillion, during the coming 10 years, but via different methods. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan’s plan seeks to balance the federal budget by 2040, in part by cutting non-defense spending. The plan also includes significantly reducing the scope of Medicare and Medicaid, while bringing top individual and corporate tax rates lower than those under the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.

    We view President Obama’s and Congressman Ryan’s proposals as the starting point of a process aimed at broader engagement, which could result in substantial and lasting U.S. government fiscal consolidation. That said, we see the path to agreement as challenging because the gap between the parties remains wide. We believe

  18. I have seen no serious discussion on any of those issues – you guys are all over the map sheet. You haven’t discussed the essence of those issues.

    Look at your style. Someone doesn’t exist because they don’t have a Wikipedia page – really – that’s the mark of fame and credibility?

    The liberal Media Matters records who the doctor is – but now his opinions are worthless because he is only a radiologist.

    Do you read any of the stuff you write? Amazing.

  19. Hello Muddy, Jeff, and Uptheflag,
    Well I guess that Common Sense does not have the intelligence nor competence to counter argue my examples and facts that show how inaccurate his posted issues are. I am sure you can trace his “Programmed Ticks” viewpoints to the non-critical thinking acceptance put forth by his favorite Radio or TV ultra conservative and slanted verbiage programs.

    Based on his filtering of his own site only allowing postings that support his fantasies of reality, I would also predict that he visits mostly sites that just reinforce those same viewpoints because this is where he finds comfort and security.

    I am talking about blog sites where they just type in the same old clichés that are not based in truth or any factualities but prefers the realm of imagination that just nihilistically reinforces their self indulged hubris. You know the essence of a conversation such as, “Blab blabla Obama’s fault, Garbled blabla, Snicker, Snort, Fart, Ha ha, Blabla, Obama’s fault…..Yea your right about that!!! Snicker, Snot blown from nose, Blabla Fart!!” In summation I covered the whole intellectual content with this sentence.

    I am thinking that if you took him off his programmed response topics that would forced him to think, coordinate, develop and respond with an original thought requiring him to apply the rules of logical argumentation, you would find him curled up in the fetal position in the corner of the room from the mass of insecurities that would consume his psyche.

    That being said, he is the perfect Teabagger and it is what it is.

  20. Come on you guys – no one here sees the irony that during the entire time George W. Bush was President and for the first three years of Barack Obama’s Presidency – everything bad that happened was W’s fault. But after Obama had two years with absolute control of the government – nothing is his fault? You have to be kidding me.

    “Engineer of Knowledge” does a high level drive by and excuses Obama of any responsibility – and everyone else is ignorant? Irony anyone?

    Two million more people are unemployed than were on the day Obama took office and you blow it off? Oh the humanity. I guess that all those families are just an inconvenient statistic.

    Check out this graph and explain why Obama and his policies are not responsible for the loss of 2 million jobs.

    However if you can’t take the word of a doctor – I guess none of us are qualified to duel with your on the fly and off the cuff “facts” – certainly you are all PHD’s in economics and government – right?

    1. certainly you are all PHD’s in economics and government – right?

      Some are.

      However if you can’t take the word of a doctor

      Could you ask the doctor to check my latest X-ray– I think I may have a broken toe.

    2. Well now that you mention it, yes I do have some expertise in this area. Have you noticed that your Obama “cousin” never surfaced until 2010. Maybe when he realized he could make some teabag money?

  21. OK Common Sense, now that I have your attention, here are the talking points.

    You chose the topic, “Consider the results thus far of the Obama presidency:”

    You stated, “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating.”
    Response that negates this comment:
    It is well noted with the world financial markets and even by Speaker of the House John Boehner’s comment to the Teabaggers, “Get Your Ass In Line” that the uncertainty of the Tea Party members in Congress that the concern is the U.S. may not make their payments on bank notes already incurred and accumulated over the decades. For this reason is why America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating. Not the President. (My son-in-law’s youngest brother worked on this bill for John Boehner’s office this past summer. This was the concern of the Republican Majority Speaker’s concerns of the unstable aspects that is the Tea Party within the Republican Party today.) Being a Republican myself I share this concern with the Speaker.

    Your statement applying blame to the President, “Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon.”
    Response that negates this comment:
    The price of oil is based on the “Free Enterprise Speculative Commodities Markets” throughout the world. The fact that gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon did not come from the President’s office but from those who value the investment of the commodity much like another commodity, “gold,” hitting a high this past week, $1680/oz. By the line of reasoning of your previous statement the President would be responsible for that too. In this case many people who invested their money when gold was $500/oz. is thanking him very much today. Of course this is a mute point as it is not reality.

    Your statement, “Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent.”
    Actually as of today’s Economic Report stated that the economy added a total of 117,000 private sector jobs in July. That is better than consensus expectations for a gain of 84,000. This report was a bit better than the ADP report on Wednesday. That report showed 114,000 private sector jobs created, and the expectations were for the BLS to show 100,000 new private sector jobs. So if as some have attached the responsibility that, “Unemployment jumped from 7.8 to 9.2 percent with a simply terrible 2011 first-quarter economic growth rate of just 0.4 percent. If you apply responsibility to the President for your statement, then does not the President get credit for this positive trend reducing the unemployment this past month by .1%? This makes two consecutive months that private sector jobs were created.

    You pointed out and accurately I might add that, “Two million-private sector jobs have been lost,” and this is very true and accurate if this statistic is realized, started, and is taking into account from the years of 2006. So who was responsible for this happening at this time? Why was it not stopped then and corrected sooner?

    As you don’t know me allow me to take this time to say that I am a very active member of the Republican and was personal friends of Congressman Wayne Gilchrest who was the Moderate Republican Congressman from the 1st district of Maryland and work on several projects for him locally. I want to pass on the I had this current events topic of conversation with Jack Kemp before he passed away about my concerns in 2002 of the “Run away Deficit” this country was engaging in. (I have been concerned with this mounting deficit since the Regan years) I was also was a supporter for many years of John McCain and thought he should have been the Republican Presidential Candidate in 2000 when he was “Swift Boated” by the Republican Leaders. Remember it was his time as a “Prisoner of War” during Viet Nam that made him too crazy to be President? It was when in 2008 that they link him up with Sarah Palin that made him unpalatable for me in that election.

    I also want to add, as you probably noted, that many on this blog are not content with President Obama’s performance so far either. A fact that should be well noted from the start of our conversation.

    You should also note I expect a high standard of debating on this blog. Now by using the rules of English 101, Logical Argumentation and Critical Writing, I am still waiting for your reply to counter. Please do not fall into the pit falls of “Straw Man Arguments”, or “Divertive Arguments,” or “Generalized Statements” as I have seen many resort to when trying to make their counter arguments.

    Now please begin.

  22. Hey, Common Sense, I made a little visit to the set of bloggers that you pal around with- the ones that you allow to post comments on your blog.

    You’ve posted more than a dozen comments here on this blog in the past 24 hours; do you like the freedom of doing that here on our ‘leftist’ blog?

    I can’t seem to make any comments on your pals’ blogs; they all have comment moderation. Freedom of expression? Freedom of the press?

    Why is it that you people on the right side of the political spectrum dislike freedom so much? What are you afraid of? Are you so shallow, so fearful, so worried that people with differing view points will challenge your ideas that you need to block them?

    Freedom? Your set of pals have flags waving, military insignia, and sayings about freedom on your blogs, but you do not have open blogs. Odd stuff.

    RIGHT-of-CENTER BLOGS
    Common Sense is moderated;
    The AntiLiberalZone is moderated;
    Hardnox is moderated;

    LEFT-of-CENTER BLOGS
    Man with the Muckrake is unmoderated;
    The Brain Police is unmoderated;
    LacitheDog is unmoderated
    Engineer of Knowledge is unmoderated;
    Jack Jodell’s Blog is unmoderated;
    A Penigma is unmoderated;

    “Freedom isn’t free”

  23. Geez, guys, it is just better to ignore remarks from the Right…There is no way in hell that we are ever going to be able to convince them of otherwise. We are just wasting our time with them. We have a country, that people like CS and his ilk are trying to destroy, to save for our children and grandchildren.
    In essence, it seems to me, they want to go back to a government structure
    based on the Article of Confederation where each 1783 state did its own thing.
    Moreover, they want to finally reverse the decision of the Civil War Period.
    There is no winable argument to change their minds. Our job is to lessen their ability to grow as a political force and to defeat them in political races. Because of the me-too-ism of the Democratic Party, they have been given the
    playing field. Their slogans of cut programs, no new taxes, no government revenue, state rights, balanced budget, and the rest are unanswered by
    Democrats. What or where are the Democratic slogans? How do the Dems
    win the argument when they have to counter the GOP slogans with we need
    this new program, tax the wealthy, close tax loopholes for revenue, more
    federal power, and unbalanced yearly budgets? What is the argument that
    can be used? Because of what you describe as LIV how is a message
    going to be presented explaining the fallacies of the Right? Are the recent scare tactics of using such words as “idiots”, “terrorists”, “hostage takers”,
    “destroyers”, etc the way to win elections? Doubt it. How about “LIARS”?
    That worked with DeMint……So, what are winable shibboleths?
    support the veterans,

    1. I wrestle with these questions all the time. I rationalize that there are “lurkers” who read but don’t post and they need to know there are other “truths”.

  24. UptheFlag writes, In essence, it seems to me, they want to go back to a government structure based on the Article of Confederation

    Then you said, Moreover, they want to finally reverse the decision of the Civil War Period.

    WOW!

    This information, your analysis, seems to suggest that this group of people are traitors to this nation- anarchists, in fact!

    Is this your point?

    What, then, are ‘normal’ politicians of the other party supposed to do to counter anarchy?

    Would you say it is a subtle anarchical uprising?

    1. Well, M_R, the GOP is not acting outside the bounds of constitutional law.
      Indeed, they have played the game very well, just as the fundies did after
      the Roe decision in 1973. The Tea Party, however, has collapsed time
      frames. The achieved the balance of power in something less than one
      year. They moved from writings, protest meetings, to picking the House
      and Senate seats they would concentrate on, defeating some in GOP primaries, and then defeating DEMS in general elections. Enough were
      elected to give them the balance of power in the House. I don’t see any
      anarchy in that process. Weak central government and strong State
      government has long been a front burner issue in our history. We did
      not have anarchial government from 1783-1789, nor did we have
      anarchial government from 1789 to 1861. From 1789 to 1861 federal
      government was increasing in power at the expense of state power. The federal government was fighting wars, encouraging inventors, building
      roads, building canals, cleaning rivers, protecting native manufacturing,
      riding the seas of pirates, building a federal banking system which a man
      of the people, Jackson, destroyed, moving native Americans out of settled states, building railroads, and a host of other initiatives that curbed state power. Indeed, the South believed it was being swollowed up by Washington, D.C. It had warned for some time that control from D.C. was
      a real threat. This is clearly evident in the Republican Party Platform of
      1860. No where did the platform say that a Republican President would
      terminate slavery, but it did call for all the programs the South detested,
      especially a strong protective tariff for Northen industries It was this constant struggle over a weak vs. strong central government that pushed the country
      to civil war, not slavery per se. The South refused to partake in the benefits of a strong federal government before the civil war, and immediately after
      the civil war and up to the present time…This argument should have ended
      in 1865, but political reasons left it to fester and it has now raised its
      ugly head again. Look, Governor Perry of Texas recentlysaid that Texas might secede because of D.C. interference in Texas State affairs. He’s not
      being anarchialk, just state rights…..

  25. Hello Uptheflag and Muddy,
    Standard and Poor’s, the financial rating company, has come out and stated today that their reason of downgrading the U.S. to less than AAA rating was based on the dysfunction of the U.S. Government that the Tea Party demonstrated in the last few weeks.

    “More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating.”

    Standard and Poor’s went onto say, “We have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government’s debt dynamics any time soon.”

    The long term outcome of the last few weeks in Congress brings forth the question of what remains to be seen is, “What will ultimately happen to interest rates.” A new rate decision is expected on Tuesday following a Federal Reserve board meeting. But on Monday, Solman reported how interest rates haven’t exactly been following the script amid all the worries over the sovereignty of the U.S. economy. It is the interest rates that drive companies to invest in new production lines, purchase of manufacturing equipment, and leading to NEW HIRING. It is also the interest rates that can make or break people’s faith in purchasing JOB CREATING ITEMS such as homes, cars, etc.

    Another financial rating company, Fitch Ratings, stated, “One of the reasons we don’t really think foreign investors will start selling U.S. Treasuries aggressively is because there are still few alternatives to the U.S. Treasury market in terms of depth and liquidity.” Basically they are saying that there is now much better places to invest the worlds assets other than the U.S.; like that of China or India.

    When you hear the Republican Leaders while in front of cameras constant droning sound bites referring to “Obama’s JOB KILLING PROGRAMS,” playing to the “Tea Party’s Low Information Voters” ranks, the truth is it was THEIR TEA PARTY’S MEMBERSHIP who through their intentional dysfunctional aspects of enthusiastically trying to shut down the government that has given the financial markets concerns of the future that the United States is not willing to make the payments on the notes and loans that were incurred over the decades.

    The responsibilities are set directly on the door steps of the Tea Party as they have only accomplished to KILL AMERICAN JOB IMPROVEMENT.

  26. Engineer – you’re on. One at a time:

    “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” Not my words, rather from an editorial – just to be clear. That’s old news of course as that just happened.

    The point Wolf was trying to make is rooted in our belief that life is about choices. Governing is about choices. President Obama sits on top of the greatest economic engine in the world and the things that he does and the things that he fails to do have an impact. What Obama does or fails to do have little to do with any of the things that seep into these conversations that tend to “boil the ocean.” We aren’t talking ideology here – it’s simple cause and effect. Economics was a theoretical endeavor for Professor Obama and it was even so for Senator Obama – it is deadly serious now for President Obama. When Obama wakes up on Monday morning if he decides to take the day off – that sends a signal to everyone watching – could be good, could be bad – but you can bet it’s going to splash all over the news. He is no longer blameless – Wolf’s point.

    “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” is no longer theoretical. We are no longer “on the verge” rather we have been down-graded. We now have the same credit rating as Slovenia. Without someone in the loop of S&P this is a complex issue and doesn’t lend itself to simple answers or solutions. I don’t pretend to have an ear in Boehner’s camp and can’t refute any “inside baseball” information that you have about intent or tactics. Besides – they aren’t really relevant to the discussion of decisions and responsibility.

    The statement “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” was true when it was uttered and it proved prophetic. The intent of the editorial and my point here is that a substantial amount of the blame for that situation rests on the President and the Democratically held Senate at this moment in time. Whether you agree with the programs, the cuts, or the objectives of the “Ryan budget” for example – had that been passed and signed by the President – we would not be where we are today. Again – you can argue with individual measures in that bill – but it would have given confidence to the markets, rating agencies, indeed the world, and stabilized the debt situation.

    The President promised to “cut the debt in half” by the end of his first term – or words to the effect. Here we are with the fat lady warming up in the wings and each year he tripled the delta between what we took in and what we spent from where it was in the very worst year under GW Bush. Halving that delta was absolutely the right thing to do – eliminating it – better yet. He didn’t do it and he’s never explained why. Had he encouraged the “Cut, Cap, and Balance” plan through the Senate, and then signed it – we wouldn’t be in the shape we are in. Again – you can argue all day long about individual cuts or programs eliminated – but the market and the ratings agencies were looking for a dramatic move from the government against the debt – and that didn’t happen.

    Actually I find myself in an odd position as a conservative in that I am preaching moderation to both sides. Obama and Giethner recklessly gambled that the debt ceiling would be raised. You might recall Geithner guaranteed that our Triple A bond rating would be safe if the debt ceiling was raised. He was wrong – which is no surprise to anyone who have watched him for the last three years. Conversely the TEA movement is screaming about Boehner caving in as they don’t really understand how a Republican (I refer here to the political process not the Party) form of government works. I do think that had Boehner and the President come to an agreement that resulted in freezing the debt ceiling and immediately slashing 40% of government expenditures it would have created chaos. So we aren’t talking ideology here – but simple cause and effect.

    Here’s where my history bias comes in – when faced with the first depression in the United States President Calvin Coolidge was calm – he worked to let the market sort things out and they did. America recovered and Coolidge was largely responsible for the “roar” in the “Roaring Twenties.” That was a decision and it was one that he made each and every day. However, Obama seems unaware that each of the words he utters in public stream out to a country hungry for some indication that he knows how to solve the problems we are experiencing.

    Obama has to look back on where he has been and evaluate his moves each and every day. The economy has not gotten better – it has gotten worse ultimately resulting in a down-grade of our credit rating. You can argue that isn’t important (as some are this morning). You can argue ideologically that rich people have to pay more or that poor people need to get some skin in the game. All of that is irrelevant to the point that was made: One guy sits at the top of the heap, he wanted the job, and he got the job. The proverbial buck stops with him. If Obama doesn’t understand that – and his public remarks indicate that he doesn’t – we are in real trouble.

    Therefore the statement by Dr. Wolf that President Obama is decidedly responsible for: “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” – is factually correct without qualification.

    Now I have to go listen to a real sermon. If you made it this far, thank you for reading.

  27. Dr. Wolf has not yet seen my toe X-ray. Would you please have him call me, CS?

    By the way, you ignored a previous comment I made above so I will repeat it here:

    Hey, Common Sense, I made a little visit to the set of bloggers that you pal around with- the ones that you allow to post comments on your blog.

    You’ve posted more than a dozen comments here on this blog in the past 24 hours; do you like the freedom of doing that here on our ‘leftist’ blog?

    I can’t seem to make any comments on your pals’ blogs; they all have comment moderation. Freedom of expression? Freedom of the press?

    Why is it that you people on the right side of the political spectrum dislike freedom so much? What are you afraid of? Are you so shallow, so fearful, so worried that people with differing view points will challenge your ideas that you need to block them?

    Freedom? Your set of pals have flags waving, military insignia, and sayings about freedom on your blogs, but you do not have open blogs. Odd stuff.

    RIGHT-of-CENTER BLOGS
    Common Sense is moderated;
    The AntiLiberalZone is moderated;
    Hardnox is moderated;

    LEFT-of-CENTER BLOGS
    Man with the Muckrake is unmoderated;
    The Brain Police is unmoderated;
    LacitheDog is unmoderated
    Engineer of Knowledge is unmoderated;
    Jack Jodell’s Blog is unmoderated;
    A Penigma is unmoderated;

    Why is that, Common Sense. What are you afraid of? Why can’t you abide opposing viewpoints?

    waiting….

    1. Mud – I have explained this to you before. I even have a post about it:

      http://conservinexile.blogspot.com/2011/05/change-in-tone.html

      I have come to your site – I am in the arena and I have been respectful here. What’s your beef?

      You want me to open my blog so you and others can type dirty words there again? My mother and other good Christian people read my blog and they were repelled by your comments. The general consensus of those who regularly visit was that they didn’t want to wade through your comments either. You know this – don’t act like you don’t.

      I worked hard and patiently with you when you first stumbled across my blog. You abused the privilege of posting there. You don’t have the “right” to come into my house and call me names – that goes for my blog too.

      If you don’t want me here – say so. It isn’t a particularly pleasant task to try and talk with you – though Engineer seems to be reasonable.

      As an aside – The preacher probably wondered why I had such a grin on my face today. You might appreciate the irony, the message was from Luke 19:1-9 (It’s best in the King James version: http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/luke19.html)

      It boils down to: you have to go where the sinners are. I’m here.

      1. “You don’t have the “right” to come into my house and call me names – that goes for my blog too.”

        This from the biggest potty mouth here? Eh?

  28. My mother and other good Christian people read my blog and they were repelled by your comments.

    Your MOTHER??? And other ‘good’ Christian people?

    Bring my violin here, please, so that I can play a nice little tune for Common Sense’s MOTHER whom I offended.

    Man, you haven’t left your adolescence either, have you!

    Your MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. Engineer,

    “Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon” – again, just to be clear this particular language came from an editorial by President Obama’s cousin. The point of that article and the genesis of our discussion is the truth or fiction of Dr. Wolf’s charge that this is President Obama’s fault.

    I think that it is only fair for you to concede that when President Bush was in charge and gasoline prices started to rise – the left blamed none other than GW Bush. It is pretty disingenuous now for the office of the President to be blameless – and of course he is not.

    I don’t mean to keep hammering on choices but that is indeed what the answer comes down to. President Obama fell into the same trap that President Bill Clinton did. Remember more than 15 years ago when Bawdy Bill said that it wouldn’t do any good to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve because we wouldn’t see that fuel for 10-15 years? Well we would be driving on that fuel now. Guess who fell into that same trap? Barack Hussein Obama. The only way producers of oil have to defend themselves from American oil exploration would be to lower the price of fuel. So that was Barack’s first costly mistake regarding oil. There is no oil jackpot on the horizon for you and me because Barack won’t let us recover it. The Saudis, the Venezuelans, and the Canadians all know it – they celebrated Obama’s decision.

    Phony response to the Deep Water Horizon spill. Obama is completely responsible for the moratorium on drilling in the Gulf following the BP oil spill. It took a court order to free up drilling and the administration is still slow-rolling permits. Remember this one as it will show up again when we discuss jobs. There is no rational reason to prevent drilling in the United States and our coastal waters. But the moratorium was even extended to the coastal regions of Virginia where drilling could have been done responsibly. There remains an Arctic wasteland where we could drill as well. No dice – bottled up by the Executive branch. Drilling would be a twofer – it would impact oil prices and it would put people back to work. Actually this would be a threefer as the government derives revenue from oil at every stage of its trip into your car. Slash prices at the pump, put people back to work, and increase revenue to the government – every morning that Obama wakes up and he doesn’t scream “Drill baby drill” he is keeping gas prices high, the unemployment lines long, and retarding government revenue.

    How about Ethanol? We are subsidizing an industry to convert food into bad fuel. If President Obama was to champion an end to subsidies and the requirement to use Ethanol in gasoline it would be a huge benefit to everyone. Only a tiny group of people who make fuel that costs more to make than regular gasoline, consumes more energy, and is driving up prices at the pump for gasoline that doesn’t perform as well would be hurt. This move transcends politics – Ethanol is just plain stupid. Obama is absent in the discussion.

    The sad thing is that Obama gets it – he knows that it is a supply and demand thing. He proved that when he released oil for the Nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserves. Increase supply, decrease cost. It’s really that simple.

    We have an Energy Department with more than 100,000 Federal and Contract employees and a budget of $24 Billion – don’t you think that if you were President you would demand that they find a gallon of oil or two? That is absolutely in the President’s power – he just has to muster the will. Firing Secretary Steven Chu would send a splendid signal to the fuel market.

    “Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon” – is that Obama’s fault? You betcha.

    If you made it this far – thank you. Would you like to continue?

  30. Hello CS.
    My apologies of getting back to you so late. I got busy on Sunday with other things and was in the Masonic Lodge participating in some degree work on Monday until very late.

    Well let’s see what we have here.

    “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” Not my words, rather from an editorial – just to be clear. That’s old news of course as that just happened.
    (Agreed as the Standard and Poor’s official made this statement this past spring in April of 2011.)

    The point Wolf (was not interesting in Wolf as I asked you to formulate your thoughts) was trying to make is rooted in our belief that life is about choices.

    Governing is about choices. President Obama sits on top of the greatest economic engine in the world and the things that he does and the things that he fails to do have an impact. (Agreed but a little cooperation is also needed too)

    What Obama does or fails to do have little to do with any of the things that seep into these conversations that tend to “boil the ocean.” (Well stated)

    We aren’t talking ideology here – it’s simple cause and effect. Economics was a theoretical endeavor for Professor Obama and it was even so for Senator Obama – it is deadly serious now for President Obama. When Obama wakes up on Monday morning if he decides to take the day off – that sends a signal to everyone watching – could be good, could be bad – but you can bet it’s going to splash all over the news. He is no longer blameless – Wolf’s point. (Again not interested in Wolf but CS. No one took more vacations in his first term than W. Bush but I am not lambasting him for that either.)

    (This needs to be inserted into the first paragraph where it was the topic then)
    “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” is no longer theoretical. We are no longer “on the verge” rather we have been down-graded. We now have the same credit rating as Slovenia. Without someone in the loop of S&P this is a complex issue and doesn’t lend itself to simple answers or solutions. I don’t pretend to have an ear in Boehner’s camp and can’t refute any “inside baseball” information that you have about intent or tactics. Besides – they aren’t really relevant to the discussion of decisions and responsibility. (Thank you for recognizeing that I have much better resources and access than most. I disagree that yes they are very relivent as we are talking about the Leadership of the Republican Party’s viewpoint of the Tea Party within its ranks)

    The statement “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” was true when it was uttered and it proved prophetic. The intent of the editorial and my point here is that a substantial amount of the blame for that situation rests on the President and the Democratically held Senate at this moment in time. (Standard and Poor’s news release stated the reason for THEIR devaluing was based on the unstableness displayed on the closeness of making the conscience decision of defaulting on payments due to the bank notes accumulated over the decades. Not mine but Standard and Poor’s statement for their reason of the downgrading a few days ago.)

    Whether you agree with the programs, the cuts, or the objectives of the “Ryan budget” for example – had that been passed and signed by the President – we would not be where we are today. Again – you can argue with individual measures in that bill – but it would have given confidence to the markets, rating agencies, indeed the world, and stabilized the debt situation.

    The President promised to “cut the debt in half” by the end of his first term – or words to the effect. (Yea that didn’t work out so well did it? :-)) Here we are with the fat lady warming up in the wings and each year he tripled the delta (from my science background I loved your use of the word Delta in this sentence) between what we took in and what we spent from where it was in the very worst year under GW Bush. Halving that delta was absolutely the right thing to do – eliminating it – better yet. (I agree with you on this as I have said, I have been bring this up within the Republican Party for TOO many years. I would also give the analogy the Budget is like a large ship….they don’t do well trying to turn on a dime but are more stable if it is taken in a long slow turn.)

    He didn’t do it and he’s never explained why. Had he encouraged the “Cut, Cap, and Balance” plan through the Senate, and then signed it – we wouldn’t be in the shape we are in. (I would interject that it did not happen over night nor will it be corrected in 1 term) Again – you can argue all day long about individual cuts or programs eliminated – but the market and the ratings agencies were looking for a dramatic move from the government against the debt – and that didn’t happen. (Respectively disagree in “dramatic” but I would say a more moderate, long term, plan to reduce the debt is a much better plan. The “Delta” aspect is an exponential factor. Like some with the physics classes say, “It wasn’t the speed…it was that sudden take up.) Force = Mass X Acceleration

    Actually I find myself in an odd position as a conservative in that I am preaching moderation to both sides. (On this I applaud you most graciously as I too say MODERATION is the key) Obama and Giethner recklessly gambled that the debt ceiling would be raised. You might recall Geithner guaranteed that our Triple A bond rating would be safe if the debt ceiling was raised. He was wrong – which is no surprise to anyone who have watched him for the last three years. Conversely the TEA movement is screaming about Boehner caving in as they don’t really understand how a Republican (I refer here to the political process not the Party) (I understand) form of government works. I do think that had Boehner and the President come to an agreement that resulted in freezing the debt ceiling and immediately slashing 40% of government expenditures it would have created chaos. So we aren’t talking ideology here – but simple cause and effect. (Like it is said my many…if neither extreme elements don’t like it, it must be a compramize in the middle somewhere.)

    Here’s where my history bias comes in – (I love History too. Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Also the only thing new is the history you have not learned) when faced with the first depression in the United States President Calvin Coolidge was calm – he worked to let the market sort things out and they did. America recovered and Coolidge was largely responsible for the “roar” in the “Roaring Twenties.” That was a decision and it was one that he made each and every day. However, Obama seems unaware that each of the words he utters in public stream out to a country hungry for some indication that he knows how to solve the problems we are experiencing.
    Obama has to look back on where he has been and evaluate his moves each and every day. The economy has not gotten better – it has gotten worse ultimately resulting in a down-grade of our credit rating. You can argue that isn’t important (as some are this morning). You can argue ideologically that rich people have to pay more or that poor people need to get some skin in the game. All of that is irrelevant to the point that was made: One guy sits at the top of the heap, he wanted the job, and he got the job. The proverbial buck stops with him. If Obama doesn’t understand that – and his public remarks indicate that he doesn’t – we are in real trouble.
    Therefore the statement by Dr. Wolf that President Obama is decidedly responsible for: “America is on the verge of losing its AAA credit rating” – is factually correct without qualification.

    Now I have to go listen to a real sermon. If you made it this far, thank you for reading. (Yes I was please to)

    “Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon” – again, just to be clear this particular language came from an editorial by President Obama’s cousin. The point of that article and the genesis of our discussion is the truth or fiction of Dr. Wolf’s charge that this is President Obama’s fault. (Why are you so attached to this Dr. Wolf?)

    I think that it is only fair for you to concede that when President Bush was in charge and gasoline prices started to rise – the left blamed none other than GW Bush. It is pretty disingenuous now for the office of the President to be blameless – and of course he is not. (Now you have gotten into a Generality Argument as you would imply that ALL have blamed Bush and All have not passed that onto President Obama.)

    I don’t mean to keep hammering on choices but that is indeed what the answer comes down to. President Obama fell into the same trap that President Bill Clinton did. Remember more than 15 years ago when Bawdy Bill said that it wouldn’t do any good to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve because we wouldn’t see that fuel for 10-15 years? Well we would be driving on that fuel now. Guess who fell into that same trap? Barack Hussein Obama. (I would interject that most of the oil being pipelined out of Alaska today does not come into the Continental United States. During the Iran Crises, then President Regan assured Japan that if they supported the sanctions against Iran, who was supplying the vast majority of the oil to Japan at the time, that the Alaskan Oil would be diverted to Japan to replace the shortfalls. The sanctions are still in place.)

    The only way producers of oil have to defend themselves from American oil exploration would be to lower the price of fuel. So that was Barack’s first costly mistake regarding oil. There is no oil jackpot on the horizon for you and me because Barack won’t let us recover it. The Saudis, the Venezuelans, and the Canadians all know it – they celebrated Obama’s decision. ( I do not agree with this thought process at all)
    Phony response to the Deep Water Horizon spill. Obama is completely responsible for the moratorium on drilling in the Gulf following the BP oil spill. It took a court order to free up drilling and the administration is still slow-rolling permits. (This did not last but a few weeks as the oil spill was still being cleaned up and it was overruled in court as you noted. Just a couple of months ago BP was awarded several, I am thinking in the hundreds, of offshore sites to drill in along with the other oil companies.) Remember this one as it will show up again when we discuss jobs. There is no rational reason to prevent drilling in the United States and our coastal waters. But the moratorium was even extended to the coastal regions of Virginia where drilling could have been done responsibly. (Well as I live on the Delmarva Peninsula and I can attest that many powers to be who own, depend on the seaside resort industry were very much against….this included the Republican and Democratic Senators and Congressmen from these states pressed very hard to stop the oil drilling off our coasts. So to put this on just the President is unsupported.)

    There remains an Arctic wasteland where we could drill as well. No dice – bottled up by the Executive branch. Drilling would be a twofer – it would impact oil prices and it would put people back to work. Actually this would be a threefer as the government derives revenue from oil at every stage of its trip into your car. Slash prices at the pump, put people back to work, and increase revenue to the government – every morning that Obama wakes up and he doesn’t scream “Drill baby drill” he is keeping gas prices high, the unemployment lines long, and retarding government revenue. (Now you are boarding on a rant here. Where are your facts to support your statement that by the President not screaming “Drill baby drill” is what is keeping gas prices high. Less emotion and more statements backed up by facts and viable examples.)

    How about Ethanol? We are subsidizing an industry to convert food into bad fuel. If President Obama was to champion an end to subsidies and the requirement to use Ethanol in gasoline it would be a huge benefit to everyone. (Amen to that one. Ethanol to fuel….I have never seen any numbers that say this is cost effective. Brazil in supplying 70% of their fuel needs by converting, I think it is sugar cane, into fuel but again I don’t know how much it is being subsidized. But I should point out that as I can see how you segwayed from the price of oil on the free market it was not one of the topics) Only a tiny group of people who make fuel that costs more to make than regular gasoline, consumes more energy, and is driving up prices at the pump for gasoline that doesn’t perform as well would be hurt. This move transcends politics – Ethanol is just plain stupid. Obama is absent in the discussion.

    The sad thing is that Obama gets it – he knows that it is a supply and demand thing. He proved that when he released oil for the Nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserves. Increase supply, decrease cost. It’s really that simple.

    We have an Energy Department with more than 100,000 Federal and Contract employees and a budget of $24 Billion – don’t you think that if you were President you would demand that they find a gallon of oil or two? That is absolutely in the President’s power – he just has to muster the will. Firing Secretary Steven Chu would send a splendid signal to the fuel market.
    “Gasoline prices more than doubled, from $1.83 to $3.74 per gallon” – is that Obama’s fault? You betcha. (I have to say that you did not prove your point and the conclusion of this last statement.)
    If you made it this far – thank you. Would you like to continue?
    (Again the pleasure was mine as I do believe the answer to all questions will only be found through civil, respectful, and differing discussions. The current most hostle environment we are living into today, is not new to the United States. I would like to close with a note from history that during the Presidential races between Adams and Jefferson, those in the Adams camp said of Jefferson, “It he is voted as President, he will confiscated all the Bibles…..Hind site being 20/20…that never happened now did it. This country has been going at it in Congress and the Senate since the start. George Washington may have been the only one spared.)

    Maybe you should open the comments to all on your blog so differing ideas may come forth. There is no problem of reminging someone to keep the verbage civil and over time maybe a more interesting debate may come forward…..Maybe the answers this country so badly needs will bloom….kind of like the “butterfly effect.”

    Take Care

    1. Engineer – I am glad that I stopped by. I truly hadn’t thought that I could have a respectful and intelligent discussion here and had not planned to return. You (and you alone) proved me wrong. It was refreshing.

      As a lover of history you might enjoy “Founding Brothers: The Revolutionary Generation” by Joseph J. Ellis. I’m going through it a second time on CD. It spends a lot of time on the issues you cite.

      I don’t think that we have to go tit-for-tat at this point. I think we are in general agreement – which works. I used the Wolf essay only as a basis for discussion. There is a very similar essay in today’s The Washington Times at:

      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/11/dont-go-on-vacation-just-go/

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