Those Confused Tea-Drinkers

The survey is in and it doesn’t look good for the so-called Tea Party goers. They seem to be mixed-up.  Angry and confused. Were I in charge of a mental ward at the county hospital, I might think that some of my patients had escaped.  You know, mixed-up and angry people…

According to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll, these self-identified Tea Party members are wealthy, white, male, old, Republican, well-educated, and angry. One might ask- what’s the difference between that description and a ‘regular’ Republican these days?  Apparently they know the difference and that is all that counts.

They hold more conservative views on a range of issues than Republicans generally. They are also more likely to describe themselves as “very conservative.” Of course, George W. Bush described himself as ‘conservative.’  Were they angry at him? They’re mad as hell at Obama, 9 in 10 disapprove of the way he’s handling the job.  Were they out on the streets during the Bush years ‘disapproving’ of his run-up of the national debt?  And wars?

Not a peep.

That’s what’s so confusing about this lot of humanity.  Selective dislike as if Alzheimer’s is setting in.  Did they forget about what Bush did to the economy?  They are old, you know.

Here’s another oddity from this group- they DO like their government entitlements- Social Security and Medicare.  They think it’s just swell! But not that other government spending.

Reality check, please.

That’s why I think they are a very odd lot with skewed standards that are illogical.  Big government is OK for them but not for others.  George Bush was OK sending the debt through the roof, but Obama’s sensible fiscal controls are terrible.

What’s with these old, white farts anyhow?   Listen to this gripe- The overwhelming majority of supporters say Mr. Obama does not share the values most Americans live by and that he does not understand the problems of people like themselves.

Go figure out that entanglement of thought process.  If you can, let me know.  In the mean time, let these impotent old bastards yell and scream and carry signs and cheer their ‘leaders.’  Maybe that’s the most ‘fun’ that they’ve had in life in many years.  And, in about 5 more years, many of them will be dead.  Grumpy old shits.

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27 thoughts on “Those Confused Tea-Drinkers

  1. Wait, you mean government spending such as out of control military spending? Why weren’t these people screaming at a pointless war that has caused far more trouble than its worth?

    I think that’s the case of selective dislike.

    The problem is that a system that makes sure that resources are spread equitably works far more than a plutocracy. The tax burden falls on those who earn money when there is a large unemployed population.

    And, no, those people who aren’t working aren’t sitting in front of the telly. But some people have given up on trying to find work.

    The Reagan-Bush years were fueled by easy credit, but that is drying up.

    And a market economy doesn’t work without a market: that means buyers and sellers. You have to be able to sell what you make.

  2. Lol…another “expert” schooled by msnbc as to who and what constitutes a “tea partier”…without the actual burden of getting out and finding out for himself!
    The tea partiers main themes are overtaxation and, the government overstepping it’s constitutional bounds.

    Do liberals really think they aren’t paying enough in taxes? Do liberals really think that deficit spending on a massive scale is ok?
    Do liberals care if the constitution is being shit on….or does it only depend on WHO is shitting on it in order to care?

    And explain to me what “Obama’s fiscal controls” are? Increased debt? Tripling spending?
    That isn’t “control” THAT is called “out of control”!

    How about this, the next TEA party that is planned, I’ll send you a personal invite and provide transportation if need be.
    You can then observe what is going on and what is being said. You’ll go home disappointed that everything Keith Olbermann has been feeding you is bullshit.

  3. Sepp- I got my data from the New York Times/CBS News poll, not MSNBC. Nice try, though.

    As I recall, Sepp, you fit many of those demographics from the poll. Remember, the poll was of ‘self-described’ tea party folks, not people who described them. Did you read the poll? Did you see yourself?

    Oh sure, you do not reflect 100% of those who assume the tea party title, but few people ever embrace a total description, but I see you there.

    Were you one of the 400 who showed up down the block from your house in Perrysburg yesterday? Interesting assembly of angry white folks there.

    I’m thinking of coming to the next one with a sign reading, DAMNED GEORGE BUSH DEFICIT SPENDING!! I wonder how that bit of historical truth will go over with the delusional folks in attendance?

  4. Sepp writes: “the government overstepping it’s constitutional bounds” in his comment above.

    Let’s not forget Bush’s “overstepping” for a long 8 years.

    It is a glittering generality to say Obama is acting unconstitutionally..Give some examples.

    And, speaking of taxes, Sepp, I believe Obama and Democrat Congress has given the largest reduction in taxesin our history. This was a tax deduction for 95% of taxpayers. Hmmm, I wonder why the tea partiers won’t recognize that achievement?

  5. Let’s not forget Bush’s “overstepping” for a long 8 years.

    It’s the dementia, UptheFlag, remember? Check out the sign in my newest post– the man at the right with the sunglasses. Apparently those people have their own “truth.”

  6. And we are paying outrageous taxes because of:
    A) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as an out of control military, which speaking of constitutionality I am supposed to be protected from by various constitutional provisions regarding military spending and the Second and Third Amendments.

    Of course, I don’t see tea partiers demanding that they are able to serve in a Swiss style military, but instead demand to openly carry around firearms outside of such service.

    B) The fact that big business runs the government, which allows for people to lose their jobs and other stupid acts of economic stupidity.

    Can a shopping mall or subdivision provide food?

    Yes, I wouldn’t mind payiing taxes, but somehow I have incurred more debt than should be incurred.

    But, why should I worry when the government spends wildly without concern for income either?

  7. BTW, before Sepp gets upset with me about incurring debt, he should realise that there is a system which not only allowed for people to get into debt, but encouraged it as a method for spurring economic growth.

    I have the ability to pay my loans, but many others who were allowed to rack up massive amounts of debt did not. Sepp’s disconnect with reality has probably also led to him ignoring this fact.

    Unfortunately, such a house of cards is doomed to fall. The larger the house, the worse the fall when it comes.

    If Sepp had critical thinking skills, he would not believe the lies he was fed and repeats.

    Which leads me to seriously question whether tea partiers can actually be described as “well-educated”.

    Book learning don’t necessarily mean one is smart and the tea partiers are proof of this.

  8. Lol…”Let’s not forget Bush’s “overstepping” for a long 8 years.”

    UTF, nobody has forgotten…you elected “change’ right? I laugh whenever some clown tries to defend Obama’s actions by saying “Bush did it too”. You guys are constantly mentioning how terrible Bush was but, defend Obama doing the same crap…how does that work?

    Muck, nobody is in denial about Bush’s spending habits but, Bush isn’t in office spending anymore…Obama is!

    Lacidog…ohhh where to begin!

    “Of course, I don’t see tea partiers demanding that they are able to serve in a Swiss style military, but instead demand to openly carry around firearms outside of such service.”

    Really? Odd, I’ve yet to see a gun at any of these functions…the exception the overhyped msnbc hitpiece from almost 2 years ago…mind what YOU’RE being fed and repeating!

    “Yes, I wouldn’t mind payiing taxes, but somehow I have incurred more debt than should be incurred.”

    And, who’s fault is that?

    “But, why should I worry when the government spends wildly without concern for income either?”

    Just like the “Bush did it too” excuse are you trying to justify your irresponsibility because the government is jacked up? Thats maturity and critical thinking skills…I’ll make a note of that!

    “BTW, before Sepp gets upset with me about incurring debt, he should realise that there is a system which not only allowed for people to get into debt, but encouraged it as a method for spurring economic growth.”

    Yeah, “it was the system”. The final decision in making a responsible decision fell on YOU!

    “Which leads me to seriously question whether tea partiers can actually be described as “well-educated”.”

    Yeah, the tea party folks are blaming the government for the things the GOVERNMENT does…while you blame the government for what YOU did!
    Maybe you should try some “book learning”?

    Always nice to pop in for a visit guys!

  9. Sepp- you seem to believe that we here all tune into MSNBC like mindless droids that need to be programed on what to believe and say. That puts you in the dunce corner.

    The people who comment here are very well read and get their information from many diverse places. Don’t throw that old canard at us in your attempt to discredit what we have to say. That’s junior high level debating.

  10. Muddy, when I see nearly same verbage being repeated from the network the conclusion isn’t hard to draw.
    I’ll discredit what you’ve said about the tea partiers via being an eyewitness and knowing some of those folks personally. Meanwhile, the ONLY information you have about those folks came to you 3rd hand at best.
    Do you judge EVERY other group by what msnbc and the NYT tell you they “are” or, just the groups you’re told not to agree with?

    And, I’ve been meaning to ask…and all of you are welcome to answer…
    What percentage of your income do you deem “fair” to be paying in taxes?
    Or, better yet, how much of your income do you think the government should allow you to keep?

  11. Sepp,
    I’ll answer your question with a question:

    Why should banks be allowed to make loans based upon fraudulent information as occured in the housing crisis?

    You are obviously not aware how much the economy is based upon debt or you wouldn’t make the stupid comment that you did.

    I suggest that you look up fractional reserve banking.

    Then we might be able to have an intelligent comment.

    Otherwise, you are ignorant.

    So, my answer is that I think we should change the economy to get away from the fractional reserve banking system which fuels any economic growth with debt.

    When the economy changes, I won’t have a gripe. Otherwise, I have a big gripe with idiots like you who blame the government, yet eat the bosses shit.

  12. Oh yeah, ever wonder why the governments’ answer to the debt crisis was to get more money out there to encourage MORE debt?

    Sepp, the economy would come to a grinding halt if we had a pure cash economy.

    So, I am not BLAMING anyone.

    You need to understand the system.

    Until then, you aren’t worth responding any further.

  13. Sepp asks, What percentage of your income do you deem “fair” to be paying in taxes?

    Actually, Sepp, I’ve really never thought about that question. Of course there is that Flat Tax group that tosses around the 10% fraction.

    ‘Fair’ would depend on what one can afford. Ten percent of a million leaves $900,000 for expenses and pleasure.

    Ten percent of $40k leaves $36k for expenses and pleasure.

    One can have much more fun in life with $900k than $36k. So the so-called Flat Tax isn’t too ‘fair’ to those with lower incomes.

    It would be good if the tax-payer would be able to allocate his/her tax burden to specific uses as he/she completes the 1040. There ought to be a set of boxes that one could check off that earmark the ‘tax due’ to specific governmental expenditures.

    However, as we live in a society, we ASSume that those who represent us in governmental roles know best where our tax dollars ought to be spent. Of course, that works best at the local level, but not at the Federal level.

    It is interesting that the annual Pig Book was released yesterday citing the ‘pork-barrel’ spending by Congress. Did I want my Federal tax dollars to go to potato research or ‘uses of wood’? Probably not. Or to General Dynamics? No.

    So, Sepp, to me life isn’t black and white but rather many, many shades of gray. Did I answer your question? Probably not, but at least i gave you my thoughts.

  14. It isn’t how much money I pay in taxes is fair, but whether I can keep what I earn instead of having it already paid out.

    Another point for you Sepp, what is a stock share?

    It’s DEBT. When one “buys” stock, they get a piece of the business–with no guarantees. The earnings comes from what profit is made by the business. No earnings, no return on your investment.

    So, the economy based upon fractional reserve banking, voodoo finance (toxic assets), and stock, has everyone dependant on debt.

    Even if you have no credit cards, loans, or other financial instruments: that cash in your pocket represents DEBT.

    Read the fine print:

    “This note is legal tender for all debts public and private”.

    The question isn’t how much money is the government going to let me keep, but how much of my well earned money will I be able to keep.

    So, a question for you: how did your IRA, 401k or other investment fare last year?

    It’s legal if the government prints money and counterfeiting if anyone else does.

  15. Oh yeah, and the government would like you to pay your taxes using a credit card!

    I’m not blaming the system, just trying to explain it to you.

    You may want to actually investigate socialism or communism, since otherwise, you are just perpetuating the system you claim to dislike.

  16. Sigh…ok

    “Why should banks be allowed to make loans based upon fraudulent information as occured in the housing crisis?”

    They’re not. That is why Goldman Sachs is about to be nailed.
    As for stock shares, it’s also called “risk”. You’re buying (betting) on a company’s future performance and you either win or, you lose. Most companies offer stocks to expand business and gain the needed capital upfront.
    BTW Laci, thanks for showing everyone just how “classy” and articulate you are!
    YOU blame the Govt for YOUR bad decisions then, point a finger because I blame the govt for it’s spending habits…and then call me an idiot?
    As for maturity, you won’t even allow a dissenting veiwpoint on your blog! Wow, what an educated and articulate BIGOT you are! God forbid any of your dedicated subscribers read some dissent on your page! Cowardice, plain and simple. Can’t answer something…just delete it! Must be wonderfull never to face reality and live in a fantasy where everyone agrees with you! Lol…and I thought libs hated censorship!
    Muck may not agree with me (and vice versa) but, he has my respect for standing up for his points and the willingness to argue them out!

    As for the govt wanting me to pay anything with a credit card…good luck with that!

    Muck, so what you’re trying to say is that the harder I work, the more education I obtain, the skills I gather through job experience should also be taxed?
    After all, bettering yourself through hard work is often rewarded with a better position…why punish a person with higher taxes for the simple act of succeeding in life?
    THAT is the typical leftist mantra of punishing success and rewarding failure!
    The clown who has spent a lifetime slacking off and ends up in entry level jobs at age 40 due to his own decisions…is deserving of paying nothing?
    Does the Aesop fable about the grasshopper and the ant come to mind?

    Flat tax? Sure why not? That ensures EVERYONE is contributing to society.
    A VAT tax? Sure, eliminate the Fed income tax and I’m good with that too…and everyone is being treated equally! After all, isn’t “equal” is what everyone wants?

  17. Oh yeah, Laci…My 401k took a beating across the board on the funds associated with muni bonds. The utilities I’m invested in dropped nearly 50% and rebounded to about $4 per share over the pre-drop price and still kicked out a .53 cents per share dividend. Every penny of dividend reinvested back into the future. The poor planning on my part was NOT pushing the cash in the money market side of my 401k into the utility stock while it was selling low. I snoozed and loozed.

  18. Sepp,
    You want to keep the system that led to this mess, that’s fine.

    You failed to address the issue of fractional reserve banking and instead chose to try and duck and dodge.

    Sorry, but the system is based upon debt whether you actually owe money or not. It’s not leftist, rightist, communist, socialist, capitalist or whatever, but pure economic fact.

    To try and put the blame on government or taxes is to not address the issue.

    BTW, I am not in an entry level job, I am a partner in a law firm.

    And I have a better idea of what is going on than you do.

  19. Laci, I’m not advocating for any of the crap that lead to the current mess nor, do I defend the perps who are responsible. Take look around those leftyblogs you link on your own site…see any condemnation of Chris Dodd, Frank, Raines, Geithner, Obama and so on? Of course not…they’re liberal democrats! Regardless of how filthy their hands are, they get a free pass! It was ALL Bush and big banks…never mind the players who were in charge of certain things, making deals and, creating the environment for failure!

    And if you believe the system is based on debt…and failing…why aren’t YOU demanding accountability from the government?
    Did your rage dry up during the last innaugeration?

    Fractional reserve banking? How about the FEDERAL reserve banking system? Nice little mafia there eh?

    A partner in a law firm? Really? I’d love to know which one because for someone who can’t even argue their own beliefs on a blogsite, I’d shudder to think you could be arguing MY case before a court of law!
    Unless you’ve found a way to simply delete the prosecuter’s evidence!
    “your honor, I don’t want to answer the state’s evidence against my client…so I move to delete said evidence in defense of my feelings!

    I understand economics pretty well. And, I understand how the monetary system operates.
    For such a genius of economic theory, explain to us all what happens when a government makes up for it’s spending by simply printing more money without a means to back the currency.
    Those “idiots” at the tea partys that you denigrate seem to grasp what happens when fiat currency floods the system…do you?

  20. “And I have a better idea of what is going on than you do.”

    Maybe you do. But, I’m working, have ZERO debt, live within my means, squirrel 9% of my checks into my future and, my house and car are paid for!

    Sad I didn’t buy a Mcmansion and a BMW I couldn’t afford to impress the world around me and then complain when the bill came eh?

  21. I think Sepp, and the Tea Party have a point about the unsustainable debt that is bankrupting the country. I just wish they would exercise some credibility on the issue. Number one, in order for me to take them seriously and not view their movement as some kind of unconscious racist reaction to Obama, they need to acknowledge, explain, and condemn the quadrupling of the debt by Reagan and Both Bushes. Any look at a chart will paint the picture that the GOP spend money like a drunk sailer in a whore house. And to elect the GOP again, if history is our guide, will just open up the spending taps again! Because that’s THEIR PLAN! They even said as much “Drown it in a Bathtub”.

    Before I take them seriously, they also need to acknowledge that a major factor driving our debt is our Roman Legion like military – that sucks up 50 to 60 percent of GDP. We have 702 bases around the world, At least 6 deployed carrier battle groups floating around the oceans at any giving time. The amount of money going to THAT sacred cow completely dwarfs health care reform.

    They also talk a lot about how Obama is threatening the constitution but then fail to even mention all the insanely unconstitutional, anti American things the Bush Administration did.. things they (tea party types) even cheerleaded for: Warrantless wiretaps, Suspension of Habeas Corpus, The Patriot Act, The Department of Nazi sounding Homeland Security? Some of the more insane Teabaggers are talking how Obama is going to suspend voting and is going to take over like some kind of new Stalin. And so I ask with delight, what are the tools Obama, if he was to do this – what are the tools Obama is going to use? He’s going to use the tools that the Bush administration put in place for him – warrantless wiretaps, suspension of Habeas Corpus, The Patriot Act, The Dept. of Homeland Security, and the 400 Trillion Dollar Military they so love! So they are against Obama – because he’s.. well Obama, but they are for the tools their Obama boogie man is going to use to take their freedoms away.

    Maybe if they would stop being hypocrites I might take them seriously, since the vast majority of them are middle class citizens who I know are not independently wealthy, so by default I imagine most of them have, are, or would take advantage of things like Medicare, Medicaid, Federal unemployment benefits, FDA inspected food, EPA certified clean water, and a bout a million other things.

    Their concern – with the debt for example – is a real issue, but the way they present themselves and the way they exhibit selective amnesia – destroys their credibility.

  22. Steve, the govt is literally spending faster than the money can be printed and then borrow the rest.

    If you see the tea folks “as a racist reaction to Obama” then, thats your fault for not doing the legwork to find out for yourself.
    The left has painted everything and everyone who simply isn’t dancing in agreement with Obama as “racist”. It’s a tactic used to change a subject and divert focus.
    The truth is, nobody can dig up dirt on the tea folks…so label em as racists and the drones won’t question it. The racism case is so weak that some leftists were planning infiltration events in order to act like rednecks and play the msnbc created stereotype for the media.
    Sad and sick that they feel the need to create a character in order to show one even exists!

    According to the government’s stats, (and I’ll take them over your 400 trillion number)
    20% goes to the military
    33% medicare, medicaid and “other” mandatory
    21% social security
    18% Non defense discretionary
    8% toward the interest on the national debt

    The patriot act? I’ve been against that from it’s inception and, even mr muckrake can back me up on that…and I’M what you’d call a “teabagger”.
    But, since you’ve bitched about Bush creating it, where is your anger toward Obama for voting “yea” on the patriot act II and then just last month extending it?
    Or how about Obama’s new “prolonged detention” policy? Being held for up to 10 years without being charged for a crime? Or being “detained” because the govt suspects you “might” do something in the future?
    THAT goes beyond Bush and right to Orwell! In his own words, he said he would…well, I’ll post a link and let Rachel Maddow tell you…I’m sure HER creds are good enough for you.

    Hypocrites? Selective amnesia?
    How about your selective outrage? Or are you worried that showing a little outrage toward Obama’s Bush-like bullshit will make you a “racist” in the eyes of your peers?

    Holy crap…thats it isn’t it! The only reason the man gets no criticism from you guys is the fear of being labeled a “racist”!

    It’s actually quite funny but, ironic…the left has deemed any disagreement and criticism of Obama and his policies as “racist” and have painted themselves into a corner of silence should they actually have a disesenting oppinion!!
    Lol…every dictator in history has used fear to keep their opposition crushed and silent…Obama is the first guy in history who has a mechanism in place to keep his SUPPORTERS silent too!
    An oppinion…the new “racism”!

    “Their concern – with the debt for example – is a real issue, but the way they present themselves and the way they exhibit selective amnesia – destroys their credibility.”

    Pot, meet kettle…kettle meet pot!

    It would never occur to you that some folks just might have been complaining for years and simply got pissed enough to actually get off their couch to petition the Government for a redress of grievances would it?
    First I complained to my friends. Then, I complained on a blog…then I got off my ass to complain in person.
    And, I was complaining long before Obama came around!

  23. I think I’ve said a few times on this blog how I was disappointed in Obama and was disappointed in his lack of leadership on any number of issues. I think folks on the left are REALLY disappointed. That’s the main reason, if any, that could hasten the return of the GOP this fall – would be an apathetic showing by the left wing of the democratic party because they are all dismayed that Obama didn’t live up to his campaign promises on issues like Single payer health care, ending the wars, closing Guantanamo, etc.. I think a few people here have made the observation that the Democratic party is no different than the Republican party and that they both are basically bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists. So I don’t think you would be accurate in saying that we all are just dancing to the administrations tune. But as far as digging up dirt on tea party folks, there’s a story that ran last week about the New York Teaparty Candidate for Governor sending out racially charged emails.

    The reality of the situation is, as far as I can tell as an observer, is that people who align themselves as tea party folks woke up one day and found the country in disaster. And the disaster didn’t happen overnight. It has happened over a period of years. So what bothers me, is that these folks want to place this disaster around President Obama’s neck like an albatross because he is the most convenient target. So when people ask, where were you guys when Bush was driving up the debt by insane amounts – mainly to pay for his tax cuts for the wealthy, while simultaneously trying to fund a 2 front war. Those are legitimate questions.

    But as an observer I can see that there is an answer to the phenomenon above, and the answer is that people really didn’t start feeling the effects of Bush’s economy on a large scale until after he was out of office. The economy began falling about the middle of 2007, and the final plummet occurred the last 6 months Republicans had control of the Government. So, it’s understandable how people are pissed, pissed about the bailouts, pissed about their 401K’s evaporating, Pissed about the perceived bias toward helping the poor in the health care law. Just today, Obama laughed off the tax protesters and said “They should be thanking me for the tax cut”. Which is true. But sometimes Obama can be tone deaf. What I think Obama needs to do is really put forth an effort and address the tea party’s fears; become their president as well, if that’s even possible.

  24. I have to admit that I didn’t really understand fractional reserve banking, but I researched it and now have a pretty good idea. It’s kind of a crazy notion that under the fractional reserve system – debt = money. And so the more debt within the system, the more money within the system. The danger, as much as I can understand, is that the interest on the debt, which = interest on the money supply, is expanding exponentially and therefore un-sustainably . So with that in mind, one has to ask themselves, what is the alternatives to the fractional reserve system (which probably is never going away, at least in my lifetime). In my research I found a number of really enlightening exchanges between Ron Paul and Bernake. But Is Ron Paul’s idea of returning to the Gold Standard, wouldn’t that make things even worse, because now, your money supply – hence the power of money to do good – is limited to a tangible limited commodity – essentially hamstringing economic activity to a fixed number. That seems just as insane as Fractional Reserve Banking.

  25. Steve, the gold standard is in a way like a debit card. If you don’t have the gold, you can’t spend the gold!

    A return to the gold standard would be temporarily painfull for the people and absolutely painfull to our deficit spenders.
    The upside would be our dollar being on par with gold prices and holding it’s value indefinitely…as opposed to simple paper being printed and backed by a “promise”.

    If you were to loan me cash, would you feel better if I had the same amount being loaned to give you as collateral for the loan…or, is my word (which in the govt’s case is worthless) good enough?

    In the world currency markets, every dollar being printed drives it’s exchange rate down which makes everything more expensive for all of us and makes hourly wages in the USA worth less in buying power.

  26. I think I read somewhere that the reason the Gold standard is a bad idea is because the US doesn’t have a lot of Gold. Our mines are tapped out, so that would make an enourmous trade deficit between our country and the people who have the gold – essentially holding the American economy hostage to the whims of trading partners – much like oil can be used as an economic weapon.

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